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High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

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Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#91

Post by kafkaesq »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #40
cushychicken wrote: post #22

The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter. It firmly pigeonholes your next salary to your current one, instead of the value you bring to a company. Patrick MacKenzie's article on salary negotiations is excellent (I would maybe even say "required") reading on the subject.

Recruiter here. I think: "The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter." is pretty simplistic and naive. You simply have to figure out how to get what you want. If you want 180 and currently make 140 and a recruiter asks what you make, just say something like "my expectation for my next role is around 180". You say that and you both probably get what you want and save…

I think he meant questions about current (or past) salary.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#92

Post by srpeck »

joezydeco wrote: post #34
pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

But it goes the other way, too. I've been contacted by many many recruiters offering interesting jobs but won't discuss the salary range targeted for that position. So how much time are you willing to spend on resume polishing, phone screens, on-site interviews, getting to an offer ...just to find out that they can't even come close to your current salary? So now I just flat out say what my jump-number is. Any answer…

My standard response is "What is the pay range? Who is the client?" to the recruiter emails. The recruiters that get back to you generally mean business. Because of this, I have a huge amount of data on contract rates now. Also, a good side effect is that at least someone is telling them their rates are too low. Hope it helps another consultant down the line...

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#93

Post by ChemicalWarfare »

pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

As long as the recruiter (either a headhunter or a company recruiter) is up front with what they can offer compensation wise I don't have a problem telling them where I'm at and where I want to be salary-wise. If it's apparent that there's no match there - saves time to all the parties involved. Sure you don't want to be "pigeonholed" into an X..Y salary bucket forever but for the short term while looking for the next opportunity that's just the reality of the situation.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#94

Post by ChuckMcM »

joncrocks wrote: post #84
ChuckMcM wrote: post #70

I expect there is more than one factor at work here. I've known folks who "grew up" in a single company; joined out of college, worked there 15+ years, got annual raises, then got laid off and then couldn't find work at their previous salary. And the expectation of an annual raise kept forcing up their salary but I don't think the company was actually evaluating whether or not the person was getting more valuable ove…

Regarding your first point, I think it's important to think about the fact that you may well be worth more to your current company than to another one, if you've been there a long time. Your experience in exactly what your current company does, the way it does it, the relationships you have within the organisation etc may mean that part of your worth within the organisation is related to how long you've been there.

I completely agree with this, there is certainly a strong value in knowing how to get things done within a particular company, and it is something that is usually not well documented.

However, I have also observed that this value is also quite hard to quantify. I have seen the key individual to a particular process get transferred or leave after a management change resulted in their "food chain" not understanding this value. Only later when they ask "Why can't we ship X any more?" do they find out that person they felt was over paid and under utilized was in fact quite essential. Sadly, management that clueless is prone to yelling at everyone else rather than do a little introspection.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#95

Post by geoelectric »

Spooky23 wrote: post #43
pc86 wrote: post #23

> After more than 20 years as an electronics engineer, Pete Edwards reached the low six-figure pay level. Where is it that late-career engineers are barely pulling in six figures? Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of money (3x mean personal income in the US, and ~1.75x mean HHI, give or take), but I'd expect most senior folks in any engineering field to be in the mid 100k range if not pushing 185ish. > Time and again, h…

At 45 you become untouchable. Too old to be young, too young to be old. How many 50 year olds do you see in SV companies? I knew a guy who was about 50, brilliant, brilliant engineer working for one of the big IT players. Well respected and trusted advisor to many customers. He got vaporized in some big restructuring that hit his division. Because of non-compete and what he did, he was basically out of work for almos…

I see quite a few 50 year olds in larger, more established companies. Older people don't join startups because they can't afford to, as a general rule, but the rest of the age skew that exists is as much because the current round of technological skill set is rooted in the GUI and Internet advances of the 90s as much as anything. That ends up putting a soft bound on career length based on if you did your primary learning before or after that.

Anyone older cut their teeth on assembly or C, NetBIOS, and CLI and may or may not have stayed current afterwards. Consider that the industry was a lot "older" (just look at old pictures) until those technological shifts happened and shook out all the people that learned in the 60s or 70s.

If something like quantum computing or a parallel functional computing revolution or VR/augmented interfaces or anything else grossly disruptive to current development practices comes around, we're all going to be in the same boat: learn or die. Getting through that is not so much a factor of age as the circumstances around age and one's willingness to keep at it.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#96

Post by ska »

tossaway1 wrote: post #35
pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

As someone who's regularly on the other side of the hiring (i.e. negotiating with candidates), I often prefer to have some insight into a candidate's rough salary requirements early in the process -- especially if it's someone that might demand more than I could offer. The hiring process is a huge time commitment for both me and the candidate -- I don't want all that time to be wasted if we could identify early on th…

So I presume you are sharing your salary range early, then?

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#97

Post by cableshaft »

geoelectric wrote: post #95
Spooky23 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 45 you become untouchable. Too old to be young, too young to be old. How many 50 year olds do you see in SV companies? I knew a guy who was about 50, brilliant, brilliant engineer working for one of the big IT players. Well respected and trusted advisor to many customers. He got vaporized in some big restructuring that hit his division. Because of non-compete and what he did, he was basically out of work for almos…

I see quite a few 50 year olds in larger, more established companies. Older people don't join startups because they can't afford to, as a general rule, but the rest of the age skew that exists is as much because the current round of technological skill set is rooted in the GUI and Internet advances of the 90s as much as anything. That ends up putting a soft bound on career length based on if you did your primary lear…

Oh, please bring the VR/augmented surfaces revolution. I'd happily switch over my career to that. As it is, my next hobby game is probably going to have VR support.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#98

Post by tunesmith »

coke12 wrote: post #75
jasonkostempski wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a jump-number? Googling it came up with your comment as the top result and then skydiving :)

The salary number that would convince joezydeco to "jump ship".

jump ship to the new opportunity (meaning a high number), or jump ship on the conversation (meaning his bare minimum number)?

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#99

Post by [deleted] »

tossaway1 wrote: post #35
pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

As someone who's regularly on the other side of the hiring (i.e. negotiating with candidates), I often prefer to have some insight into a candidate's rough salary requirements early in the process -- especially if it's someone that might demand more than I could offer. The hiring process is a huge time commitment for both me and the candidate -- I don't want all that time to be wasted if we could identify early on th…

[deleted]

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#100

Post by joezydeco »

tunesmith wrote: post #98
coke12 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The salary number that would convince joezydeco to "jump ship".

jump ship to the new opportunity (meaning a high number), or jump ship on the conversation (meaning his bare minimum number)?

Jump to the new job. Doesn't necessarily have to be a high number, but if I'm not looking for a lateral (meaning, I like my current job), then it should be significantly larger than what I'm making in salary/benefits today.
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