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Apple’s declining software quality

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Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#91
post #69
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have rose colored glasses about Snow Leopard. It had plenty of bugs and hiccups. People deride the "iOS style" features of El Capitan but first, what specifically are you referring to besides Launcher? Do you think adding Notifications to OS X is bad? I find them extremely useful, and like the integration better than the spotty support Growler had among third party software. I never use Launcher but it's…

It's less about Snow Leopard having been supposedly perfect and more about how OS X feels like it's just floundered around randomly since then. In fact, for me, I can honestly say that OS X has almost strictly regressed in terms of my day-to-day experience. Spotlight now covers up way too much of the screen for almost no gain; if I'd wanted that, I'd have just used Alfred. Mission Control is still not as powerful and…

>how OS X feels like it's just floundered around randomly since then.

Well said. For nearly a decade, every OSX was clearly better than the previous. The GUI kept getting more efficient, bugs disappeared.

Now when there's a new OSX version, my first thought is, "Oh no, what's going to break?"

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#92

Is Apple's software quality truly declining? I've been an OS X user for a couple years now, and I'm perfectly happy with my laptop and its updates. Whenever I read articles like these, I wondered if the software quality has actually declined, or if it's received too many features to be properly maintained, or if now it has so many more users that the flaws have become more apparent.

My 2013 Macbook Pro keeps crashing with Firefox, a few times every day. I cannot use Firefox anymore, I had to switch to Chrome. And as I am writing this Mail crashed because I wanted to forward an Email with a large picture in it. And messages has crashed numerous times, I don't use that either anymore.

So yes, for me Apple's software quality truly has declined sind Snow Leopard.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that so many people, myself very much included, now stick with OS X merely because ``it's not quite shitty enough to switch''. When I switched to the Mac initially, I switched because it was vastly better option than XP; now, I feel that lead has been eroded and that Windows 10, while different, isn't far behind OS X in most respects.

Windows 10 is -in my limited experience- awful. Admittedly I don't use it for much more than gaming, light browsing, and occasional ssh sessions but it's painful to use, the apps aren't great, and it frequently craps out with weird error messages (e.g. "The required TCP protocols not installed on this machine" actually meant "The NAS isn't responding").

I've found the opposite, its been rock solid for me.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#94
I've heard this said a lot recently, but I must admit it hasn't been my experience. I've had generally no problems with any version of OS X, having used it since Tiger; upgrades seem to have led to general improvement, with the usual proviso of various broken bits and pieces in the first release, pretty much in line with the advice that's always been in place for Apple services – don't use the first release. The same for iOS.

Regarding the specifics pointed out by the author: OpenGL support does and always had lagged behind (sucks) and there have been security gaffes (sucks). I don't agree that the SDK needs 'modernizing', whatever that means, however.

Apple has problems with software quality, granted. But is it realistically any worse than any other provider, or is it getting worse? That's not my experience, at least.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#95

To be fair, Apple seems to be addressing this with the last release. El Capitan had fewer new features and concentrated mainly on performance issues. I hope they do the same in the next release. I don't care for more features at this point.

>El Capitan had fewer new features and concentrated mainly on performance issues.

Well if that was their goal I think they failed. I skipped Yosemite, so I'm comparing to Mavericks. El Capitan feels much slower, I don't think I ever seen the beach ball so often.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#96
All throughout elementary and middle school, I used Macs. My schools had them, and my family had one that I used for all my work. I went from System 8, to 9, all the way through 10.0 to 10.6.8.

I bought a Mac this summer to do some OS X-specific development, and I was truly shocked by how bad things had become on the desktop. Performance is generally poor, UI has apparently gone out the window, and the UNIX features that Apple once heralded have been hidden below new toolkits and proprietary replacements of old systems (discoveryd anybody?).

In many ways, I was reminded of how things were both on System 9 and during the early releases of OS X. It's not nearly as bad now as it was then, but Apple also doesn't have nearly as many reasonable excuses to for such a regression in quality.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#97
post #29

I'm glad to see that other people have noticed this. iTunes has always been a pain to use, but otherwise Apple's software used to be incredibly robust and worked well. Nowadays Apple seem to be pushing out updates without proper testing. It's got to the point where I'm hesitant to actually update my devices for fear they'll become unusable. And that's never good. At one point both my MacBook and my iPhone were suffer…

It's got to the point where I'm hesitant to actually update my devices for fear they'll become unusable. And that's never good.

Sadly, this doesn't seem to be specific to Apple either. It has become almost the norm in many parts of the software industry, to the extent that I don't voluntarily update any software that is installed and working any more, other than essential security updates. These days, even that is only done after a search to see which supposedly essential Windows updates are actually important for security, because I no longer trust Microsoft to be honest about what their updates are for either.

My default assumption otherwise is that running any sort of updater on application software, or heaven forbid on drivers or the whole OS, has a better than even chance of breaking something I care about, and that every time a browser auto-updates there is a close to 100% chance it will break something I care about or change something in a way I don't want or need. But since almost everyone is now producing similar levels of unreliable and unstable products, there's little you can do to get away from it.

Combined with the version ratcheting problem we were discussing a week or so ago here on HN, also in connection with Apple but also a much wider problem within the industry, it's becoming almost impossible to simply choose and use software you actually want, and to upgrade if and when a better version for your needs is available. This is not a good thing.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#98
post #10

There's just no way in hell Steve Jobs would be putting up with this and I wish he was alive to tear some people a new one. I didn't like Jobs but respect his ability to achieve things. Perhaps, the years of oversimplifying applications has created an Apple that can't handle complex applications? Or, there's a chicken and egg question: XCode and the surrounding tools are atrociously buggy and hostile to the developer…

>>Or, perhaps, at some point, software becomes too complex for humans to deal with.

I'd say rather that things need to be simplified and features removed in order to improve quality. Every new Mac or iOS release touts XXX number of new features. If you want to offer the best products, having more features isn't necessarily a prerequisite.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#99
The decline seems real to me. A shortlist of things I've noticed:

* Spotlight no longer finds things as easily. I used to use it for everything. Since updating to El Capitan, it has missed some exact match folders. Planning to switch to Alfred.

* iWork was gutted in '13. People used to use Pages professionally. I'm now using Pages '09, and planning to transition to Word or Latex. I tested Pages '13 intensively, and it fails for even basic publishing.

* Siri can only work with default Apple apps. And those default apps are getting worse. So Siri takes a hit with every app that declines. I used to use Mail, now I don't.

* Constant Wifi issues. I frequently have to turn off wifi, then turn on. On my home network. This never happened pre Mavericks.

* In general, all my Apple default software on my iphone is sitting in a folder titled "apple", which I never use. I don't think I use any Apple default App.

* I avoid icloud. It sends scary "do you want to delete all these files" messages if you ever unsync a device, and it's not clear which actions produce which effects. iTunes has a history of destroying files on syncs, so I can't trust iCloud. Even now, itunes will add apps to my device if they're in my library but I deleted them from my phone. It does this without asking! Any other cloud app has figured out how to handle deletions from one device.

Pages 09 hit the hardest. It was wonderful software. I used it for print publishing, and it just worked. Easy to use, incredibly powerful. Have a look at their manual for the level of care they put into their software, as recently as 2009.

Pages 13 can't do half of that. Very basic stuff like "facing pages" for books has been left out.

https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/0/MA663/en_US/Pages09...

Edit: A comment below pointed out that, I do in fact use default apps. I had taken them for granted. These ones work well and I use them:

Messages, Phone, camera, photos, clock, wallet, calendar, music (UI got worse on this one). Reminders I use occasionally because of the Siri integration.

There are some issues with some of them, but mostly they work pretty well.

On the mac, the only default apps I use frequently are textedit and Preview. Previews remains excellent. I use spotlight, but as noted above it got worse.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#100
post #58
post #10

There's just no way in hell Steve Jobs would be putting up with this and I wish he was alive to tear some people a new one. I didn't like Jobs but respect his ability to achieve things. Perhaps, the years of oversimplifying applications has created an Apple that can't handle complex applications? Or, there's a chicken and egg question: XCode and the surrounding tools are atrociously buggy and hostile to the developer…

For OS X, the decline began under Jobs with 10.7. I'd always assumed it was simply that Apple no longer cared about computers; in Jobs' own words, “milk the Macintosh for all it's worth and get busy on the next great thing.”

10.7 was a pretty low point, but OSX quality has been inconsistent throughout, with a few high points late in release cycles. And it's always panned in .0 releases (same historical issue with initial hardware revisions).
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