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Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

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Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#91

Post by tomreece »

cgh wrote: post #43
tomreece wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're all making glorified crud apps, stuff that I could make solo. I'm not excited by it.

Well, you seem to work with web applications. So no wonder. In my opinion, in terms of fun, interest and challenge web programming ranks slightly above Cobol, for exactly the reasons you state. You mentioned you wrote a game. Game programming might be something you like and not every place is a sweatshop, although you have to be discerning. Embedded/low-level programming is cool too. I used to write router firmware,…

At my last company I had the opportunity to write some code to fetch data from an api and display messages on 15 Daktronics signs for a bus transit station. That was cool and pretty low level for me, because I had to send bytes to this sign according to a certain protocol defined by their poor documentation.

That project could have been a blast, but it was put off until the last minute and then rushed and then the signs were hung at the transit station before we had a chance to interact with them and toggle some switches inside so we had to do that on a ladder in the cold oh and by the way my test sign was not exactly like the sign that was actually installed. So as usual, another project ruined by rushed managers who didn't involve me sooner and just started buying stuff and doing things.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#92

Post by tomreece »

nostrademons wrote: post #24
tomreece wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my third try at improving my situation, each time the money has increased and is helping me pay that debt off. So I'm getting closer on that front, but I don't want the money. I want to be excited to wake up every morning and go build something amazing.

Money buys freedom. Save up a couple years of living expenses and you can go do what you want for a couple years. If you're prudent, this could also develop the skills that'll make sure your next job is both more fun and more lucrative than your past ones. Actually, you don't even have to quit. Just knowing that you can quit, if you're not happy, changes how you interact with your employer. Don't like what you're doi…

> Just knowing that you can quit, if you're not happy, changes how you interact with your employer.

I think if I KNEW this, I'd have a significantly different perspective on things.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#93

Post by tomreece »

jmspring wrote: post #40
NhanH wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not giving the writer enough charity with your interpretation. Almost every single programmers I personally know around his age shares the sentiment. Ranging from SV startup jobs to the FB/Google/Microsoft/AMZN, even some doing programming in countries half way across the world.

So, a generation of entitled? Me - I stay with a job (or side project or consulting) if it is fun and I am learning something. Pick and choose accordingly. From the article -- "I write test automation to test the front-end" -- there were potentially interesting things here maybe some years ago, but he put himself into a position that frequently gets off shored and doesn't have a lot of room for growth/creativity. Rea…

I didn't know if I'd like testing or not. But I thought I would try something new. Comparing my daily work with the coders around me, I still think I'd pick testing because they literally just glue too many shitty api's together into an AngularJS application.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#94

Post by tomreece »

solipsism wrote: post #69
moron4hire wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright, fine, we don't deserve anything. We don't deserve to be treated like children. We don't deserve to have the majority of our productivity either stymied or taken from us and bastardized. We don't deserve to be told "do this for us and we'll take care of you" and that turns out to be nothing. Yeah, there's a lot we don't deserve. I'm owed what I was promised. I was promised "pass these tests, you can get into…

Keep on insisting you're owed what you were promised, and keep on saying "Eff. That. Noise." See how far it gets you. My rules may suck, but they have the advantage of being reality. But you probably have your own reality? Great, just don't be surprised if you're the only one living in it.

I don't understand why this discussion is about entitlement. I thought this was the american dream? You work hard, you make something of yourself. Things go your way. Things are going well enough my way, but I'm not happy. I don't want it.

Hell, give me a lobotomy and erase my education from me. In return, absolve me of my student loans. Let me start over and try again. I can't even do that because I'm in so much debt that switching careers is not even feasible. I have to program to pay these loans. I wouldn't survive without a programmers salary, but I don't even want the money. That's the part that kills me.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#95

Post by tomreece »

sly_foxx wrote: post #26

$65k in student loans to learn programming? The author is clearly an idiot. Programming can be learned from home for next to nothing, because you have all the tools you need there. It's not like you're a surgeon and you're working with expensive/complex equipment.

> The author is clearly an idiot.

Wow. I didn't realize Hacker News folks were like redditors.

The 65k comes from the fact that I had to pay tuition and living expenses. My family is from a small town. The nearest college was 2 hours away (Indiana University). 15k a year adds up fast.

I honestly didn't NEED the education, I think if I spent 4 years teaching myself I would have been just fine. I just felt that I needed the degree to get my foot in the door anywhere. Maybe I was wrong, but do you dispute that?

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#96

Post by tomreece »

williamle8300 wrote: post #41

He's essentially admitting two things: 1) I hate my job... but! 2) I do it because I need it Ok. That's fine. Just shut-up if you need the job. No one needs to hear about your woes and whinings if you're conscionable about the contract you're entering in to. It's downright childish if you don't reject/quit a job if you don't want it.

Did you read the post? I LOVE programming. I HATE programming for someone else as a career.

For fucks sake.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#97

Post by nstart »

tomreece wrote: post #90
nstart wrote: post #60

I almost cried while reading this. During that job, I made and shared two side projects for the first time in my life. But the 9 to 5 hell was impossible to deal with. Fast forward to now, I'm remotely working with a company that pays me a great salary. I live in South East Asia and that means my savings are fantastic. Bonus is that the company is amazing. Dreamt of joining it since 2012. But I digress. Here's where…

Awesome story friend. I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors!

Let me know if you want to take it up :)

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#99

Post by davekiss »

Thanks for writing this, Tom. Coding as an employee isn't right for me, either.

By and large, programmers generally make great employees. Many brilliant people are able to knock out their assigned and existential objectives by solving complex problems and are handsomely rewarded with hefty checks. But, if you ask them questions outside their comfort zone about, for example, running a business, designing for the user, or marketing, most would be quick to point out that those aren't responsibilities that fall on their plate.

To me, it sounds like you have a fervor for being more than just an employee. You want to take ownership of your work. You want to use your brain for your own benefit, not for some other corporation to rent out. You want the grittiness of taking on multiple roles and welcome being side by side with your users.

There are many of us out here, coding as self-starters, founders, freelancers, remote workers, and small business owners. It isn't for everyone, and if you are happy or content with your full time job, then it's probably not for you. That's ok.

But for those of us who have found ways to make it work outside of what can feel like the soul-crushing environment of a typical full-time workplace, the devs building on their own, grinding out client work, doing remote year, making products - ask any of them, and you'll find that coding as a employee wasn't right for them, either.

I'd encourage you to read my post on the way I fell into this line of thought, but for me, I was coming from a job that I actually really liked: http://davekiss.com/getting-started-with-passive-income/

You don't need to code as an employee to code as a career. Be honest with yourself; are you an employee, or a founder?

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#100

Post by vladimir-y »

dudul wrote: post #34

Damn this is one bitter guy indeed. First of all, everything you do as a kid is more fun than doing it as a professional. I sure loved to play soccer as a kid, but guess what? Being a professional player is full of annoying things like training, lifting weight, being careful with your diet, traveling all the time, etc. And that could probably be said about any career. Being a professional at anything is tough compare…

It looks like that kid becomes an adult, and eventually realizes that adult life is full of compromises.
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