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80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

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Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#91

Post by lojack »

diezge wrote: post #69
err4nt wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be worried about both! If you have to clear a float, you can do it even more cleanly in CSS by using a psuedo element. The old trick was to set `overflow: hidden` on the element containing floated items so it would always expand to contain it - but then things like box-shadows get cut off by the containing element. To get around this, you can use an `:after` pseudo-element on the element that contains the float i…

"I'd be worried about both! If you have to clear a float..." Why? I haven't needed to use floats at all since moving to flexbox.

If I interviewed anything but a junior candidate and they said this I'd immediately dismiss them. Sure, flexbox can solve most of the problems, but flexbox isn't always an option. Any candidate worth their grain of salt would know this regardless of whether or not they knew exactly how clearfixes work. I'd much rather them tell me they knew the purpose, but didn't exactly know how they worked than immediately dismiss it.

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#92

Post by gelasio »

Silhouette wrote: post #82
gelasio wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the point of the post you're replying to. What's the reason that you feel that you want to understand the "real technologies" that run the web? So that you can build better apps with those technologies, right? So, what you really want to do is just build some apps, not learn CSS. See the difference?

If we had been talking about means vs. ends, I would agree. However, we were talking about knowing HTML and CSS vs. knowing abstractions built on top of them. In that context I didn't interpret the post I replied to the same way that you did.

The person you were replying to did emphasized "wants to" vs "have to" though - so I think they were trying to insert the point about means vs ends. Anyway, whoever was trying to make that point - I think it's been made (however painfully).

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#93

Post by acbabis »

jnbiche wrote: post #56

If you use proper semantic HTML, ARIA attributes are rarely needed. It's a good idea to validate nonetheless, but there's no point in writing: Sign in or Heading I can think of only a handful of aria attributes that would be helpful if you use proper HTML, such as `search`, maybe `toolbar` and a few others. But it's good to validate the markup regardless, to be sure.

Styleable versions of components that aren't natively styleable (, checkbox , radio ) are another example of where ARIA attributes are helpful. jQuery's Menu demonstrates this: https://jqueryui.com/menu/ (Inspect the DOM)

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#94

Post by elliotec »

I don't believe this for one second. 80 applications, seriously? You didn't even interview any of them? They don't know semantic HTML5 tags but they can wrap their head around the React ecosystem? I'm calling BS. Also what the hell is the rest of the article even about? Is he trying to teach these apparently clueless developers what they should know? Unclear. What does inequality have to do with his point? Geez.

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#95

Post by elliotec »

danso wrote: post #42

Reminds me of a fullstack bootcamp graduate I once worked with. I asked him to make a javascript interactive map (literally, copying an example from bl.ocks, but change the data file) just as a test...and after a whole day, he couldn't get it to work. But when he instantiated an entire Rails project and copy-paste the HTML inside of it as its own page, he was able to get it to work.

Sounds like there was no problem with him at all.

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#96

Post by cobaltblue »

jnbiche wrote: post #56

If you use proper semantic HTML, ARIA attributes are rarely needed. It's a good idea to validate nonetheless, but there's no point in writing: Sign in or Heading I can think of only a handful of aria attributes that would be helpful if you use proper HTML, such as `search`, maybe `toolbar` and a few others. But it's good to validate the markup regardless, to be sure.

Besides, all the ARIA stuff isn't free. It only benefits screen readers and bots that aren't Google's. The rejection from lack of accessibility is as strange as rejection from lack of functionality in IE 8 or less (which has perhaps 2-4x as much market share as that of all screen readers). For any website or webapp you should know your market and make the call whether you need to spend time upfront, burn the time now, or delay indefinitely or forever, on supporting these low market share alternatives.

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#97

Post by runarberg »

err4nt wrote: post #57
diezge wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be worried they were asking about clearfix as opposed to flexbox.

I'd be worried about both! If you have to clear a float, you can do it even more cleanly in CSS by using a psuedo element. The old trick was to set `overflow: hidden` on the element containing floated items so it would always expand to contain it - but then things like box-shadows get cut off by the containing element. To get around this, you can use an `:after` pseudo-element on the element that contains the float i…

Imho, clearfix as a solution to a problem that existed before CSS3, when people used the `float` role to align things in a row -- when time came to stop the alignment behavior, you applied a clearfix. Today, you really only float things that have a block flow inside an inline context, like asides, pictures, blockquotes, etc. You don't really need clearfix since your inline content should just flow around it. If you are using floats on entire sections you are obviously doing something wrong, and you ought to ask your self if `display: flex` on the parent wouldn't be a better fit.

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#98

Post by diezge »

diezge wrote: post #69
err4nt wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be worried about both! If you have to clear a float, you can do it even more cleanly in CSS by using a psuedo element. The old trick was to set `overflow: hidden` on the element containing floated items so it would always expand to contain it - but then things like box-shadows get cut off by the containing element. To get around this, you can use an `:after` pseudo-element on the element that contains the float i…

"I'd be worried about both! If you have to clear a float..." Why? I haven't needed to use floats at all since moving to flexbox.

lojack: "...but flexbox isn't always an option."

When isn't it? If you're developing for old (now unsupported) versions of Internet Explorer I'm not sure they'd be bothered about being turned down (unless they knew about that when applying). Just because something was done some way once doesn't make it right, and putting emphasis on 'clearing float' questions would show your company use old, bad practices.

Re: 80 front-end job applications – nearly no one had basic HTML/CSS/A11y skills

#100

Post by FilterSweep »

estefan wrote: post #74
bluejekyll wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is all about default CSS values associated with the tag, you can override them as you like which is probably what your relying on.

But obviously when you use your reset.css that all goes out the window anyway... I thought it was some semantic thing for screen readers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there are aria attributes (e.g.: role="navigation") that can also be used as well for this same purpose. Nav is probably safer, but agreed on the CSS reset.
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