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Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

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Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#91

The same reason as there were no Black people nominated for Oscars.

You say this, and I hate to point out the obvious, but look there has to be a cut off point for Affirmative Action somewhere... and it turns out to win an Oscar you have to be the best. Just like companies want the best coders. The best isn't a quota.

If you want a quota for black / female / 8-finger coders... have a quota, but the market has yet to make a business case for this being beneficial. (The case could be made in preventing PR gaffes like how Facebook banned all the people with "ethnic" names a few years ago by mistake... but I think these instances are somewhat few and far between.)

I'd guess this has more to do with:

1) black people not having the same access to computers / technology early on (much of what we learn as technologists comes far before college starts),

2) black students often get into college through Affirmative Action, so they may not have been as strong to start with, and

3) black students don't tend to graduate with the same rates / grades others do -- which makes it harder to get interviews / offers.

I don't know what the solution is here, but when you find it we can also use it to get equal white guys in the NBA.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#92
The biggest issue I have with the article is that it presents SV as the only place you can go to be successful with a CS degree.

It very well could be that the article misrepresents the efforts of Prof. Burge and the Howard staff since the article is focused on SV.

But if SV is turning away energetic, engaged, intelligent and capable new recruits, then please send them to NYC, Seattle, Chicago, Philadelphia, Triangle Park, LA, or anywhere else where companies are looking to hire.

It might not give you a "direct impact" on SV itself, but it does get your people into good paying jobs where they can further develop their skills and experience (especially for those without a long childhood of working with computers). It's a small industry. Soon enough these graduates will be attending conferences and making an impact on this culture.

More importantly, they'll also be representatives in their local communities, helping to inspire the next generation of students who don't see themselves or their experience reflected in this industry. And perhaps that next generation will be more likely to pick up programming in middle school.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#93
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It often seems like the people writing this articles don't realize that preferring your own race is racism, no matter what race that is. If she feels that she doesn't fit in because there aren't enough people like her (black), that's just as racist as white people not wanting to hang out with blacks because they're not white.

Haven't you heard that racism = power + prejudice, so black people by definition can't be racist because they don't have power? (This is not an opinion that I agree with, but a lot of people actually think that way).

Thank god Obama isn't really black.

Sarcasm aside, a lot of people believe whatever serves them better. When they realised that "racism = discrimination" wan't enough to let them achieve their goals, they changed the definition to "racism = discrimination + power". Or, us geeks only became "patriarchal opressors of minorities" when non-geeks realized that the smart kids that got bullied at school were becoming really rich.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#94
post #18

"as the only African American on her team, she didn’t feel she had much in common with her colleagues. “When I went out to lunch or something with my team, it was sort of like, ‘Soooo, what are you guys talking about?’ ” she says" I find this sentence really shocking, perhaps because I'm french and in France we try to assimilate people more (I don't really know), but I would definitely think that as a white software…

It's not that surprising. Howard University is 95% black (source: http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1024 " rel="nofollow">http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl... ) and is one of the lowest ranked colleges in terms of diversity. Coming from such a culturally closed-off environment to a different one comprised mostly of whites and Asians of different eth…

It'd be an irony if part of the reason students at HBCUs don't "mesh" with Silicon Valley is that they're not comfortable with diverse environments. Looking at a list of the "whitest" universities, their graduates seem similarly unrepresented in the places I've worked.

A flawed but interesting test: do black CS graduates from Stanford and MIT fit better into SV than black CS graduates from Howard?

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#95

Look at every notable tech company ever, do you see many black people involved in the founding? Why is that?

Totally unrelated to the issue. There is very likely to be some bias on behalf of people making investment decisions, your level of access has significant impact on likelihood of getting funded. On the other hand there are strong diversity programs at universities that article mentions (MIT etc.) and SE are generally hired based on their abilities.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#96

Did you read the article?

I read it and the title really says it all with a clickbait premise like that. You'd think at Bloomburg they'd have someone who at least has an introductory knowledge of statistics because the claimed 1% is to be expected considering how small the black community really is and how there just aren't a lot of black CS majors.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#97
post #18

"as the only African American on her team, she didn’t feel she had much in common with her colleagues. “When I went out to lunch or something with my team, it was sort of like, ‘Soooo, what are you guys talking about?’ ” she says" I find this sentence really shocking, perhaps because I'm french and in France we try to assimilate people more (I don't really know), but I would definitely think that as a white software…

What do you mean by the French try to assimilate people more? I'm confused because France is notoriously horrendous to tourists. I've seen polls rate it as the worst place for customer service with tourists and my own brother's experience got him nearly in a fight with some French guys bullying him. Furthermore, this is just a cultural thing. I'm white and was in a team with a bunch of white engineers that loved cars…

Can't agree more with your last paragraph! Summed up pretty much everything I was trying to say above.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#98
I have a few minor issues with this article/approach at Haward. First of all, it makes it appear that companies like Google and Facebook are the end-all-be-all. There are more companies than the top tier. In fact, there are also companies outside Silicon Valley. Not only are they setting up students with potential failure, but they are painting a different view of what the industry looks like and where it is located. They are even discounting NYC, which is just a train ride away.

Also, the problem with Howard not being a top tier school applies to every school that is not in the top tier. Many do not even get the same access to recruiters that Howard does.

I also believe schools should be teaching fundamentals and theory and not be used as job training.

That said, the assimilation problem, "cultural fit", is real, but is often neglected. Many programs trying to fix the minority inbalance simply focus on outreach, the recruiting pipeline.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#99
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't find it surprising. I'm white, and I've been on all-white teams where everyone else watched the same TV shows or went to the same movies or played the same video games, and I didn't. Those common interests would feel like the only thing they ever talked about, and it would feel very unwelcoming. Part of the problem is just luck of the draw in terms of the team you get placed on. If that team is all into the…

But that's not what she says, her problem isn't that she doesn't like Marvel Cinematic Universe but that she feels that she doesn't have much in common with people of other races.

those are basically the same thing

to put it another way: if your white friends grew up watching spongebob squarepants and you grew up without cable, that could certainly make a cultural difference

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#100
What a big steaming pile of political correctness. The author interviews a tiny handful of mediocre college students who blame their "color" for not getting hired right out of school by big, glamorous tech companies. Are we supposed to be sympathetic?

I remember my own struggles to break into the tech business, many years ago now. Although white and "privileged", i.e. no cultural barriers to entry, I found it very tough and had to jump through hoops, work my way up from semi-tech to actual development positions. I took night school courses on a credit card and got into debt. I bought whatever gear I could afford and stayed up until 3am writing code, then got up and went to my menial job.

The opportunities didn't just fall in my lap; I had to earn them. No glamorous technology titans came knocking on my door, begging me to come interview. I had to work for everything I got, and God, it was hard. It still is.

This same work ethic applied to everyone; I was on the chatboards in the late 80s, all through the 90s, and the 2000s, and the story is always the same. You have to have the right stuff if you want to build a career in technology -- be smart, creative, have some initiative, humility, humor, etc.

So maybe Black Americans don't get that in their upbringing. Maybe they're not taught to be smart, competitive, hard charging over achievers. Maybe they're not encouraged to be creative, to think outside the box, etc. I don't know. What I do know is, you can't compensate for that by handing people undeserved opportunities.

Affirmative action is a failure; it's nothing but a form of welfare. If Google reaches out and hires under qualified people from Howard or wherever, just to say it's trying to overcome "barriers" and achieve "diversity", that's all doublespeak that in the end means "We will hire a few token blacks because we have extra money. It will make us feel good, and it will fool them into thinking they made it. Whatever. We have to do it."

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