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The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

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Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#91

Post by apalmer »

rimantas wrote: post #78
incepted wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jQuery filled a need. It's as simple as that. Its success has nothing to do with looking in the other direction or not redefining Javascript: it solved a problem that a lot of Javascript developers were struggling with. Now what's really fascinating to me now is that while one can safely say jQuery created a revolution in the Javascript world when it came out, it is today widely looked as a smell and avoided as much…

That need was filled by Prototype.js before jQuery. I remember the times when Rails defaulted to Prototype (author was a member of Rails core team, iirc). I also remember when we still had to choose between the two for the new project and I was unhappy if the choice was Prototype. So they both solved the problem, but jQuery's solution was more focused and way more elegant.

thing about prototype is it fundamentally changed how you dealt with javascript.

jquery was just easy dom selection and manipulation, easy ajax, and easy events... you could drop it into any project and it didnt really proscribe anything else...

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#92

Post by xaduha »

Karunamon wrote: post #85
apalmer wrote: post #16

I am amazed by how the article attempts to look forward to what the future will hold with JavaScript frameworks... and yet seems to be completely both dismiss or misunderstand (perhaps willfully) why previous frameworks have succeeded. jQuery did not succeed because it was a 'good enough' competitor to dojo or prototype or mootools or extjs... it succeeded because it went completely the opposite direction. it did not…

Silly question - why are is everybody talking about jQuery in the past tense and why are you saying it "did not succeed"? It just got a beta release of a major version less than a week ago, it's a core part of Bootstrap, which just about anyone building webapps has used at some point, and depending on whose statistics you look at[1], powers a frankly absurd number of sites, including things everyone's heard of like M…

jQuery is not cool. It's been there, done that for most, we all know where that road leads.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#93

Post by holonio »

I think the "server-aware" components are an incredibly important point.

Consider user authentication. Anyone who has written a SPA with Node (e.g. Express) and React on the frontend knows how painful it is to integrate with login services, even with something like Passport.js. The value of having React components that can deal with what happens on the server is pretty huge.

Right now, most of the abstractions we build on the server and on the client are pretty disconnected because server and client frameworks operate independently of one another. That means that the abstractions we build often don't really abstract away all that much stuff. Writing an auth system or a feed, etc. every single time you start a new project is a huge pain and something Meteor is in a great position to completely eliminate.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#95

Post by gravity13 »

mkozlows wrote: post #43
NhanH wrote: post #5

Can someone chime in as to whether React won the frontend war? As in the super majority of new project will be developed in React. I'm not that well-versed in the Node ecosystem (I got my news from ... HN). But from little I've seen, I found it hard to believe that React would be able to react the place where jQuery was (is?). Heck, we even have a post staying on the front page today lamenting the inferiority of Reac…

It would be basically impossible for React to reach jQuery-like levels of adoption. The beauty of jQuery was that you could take an old, crufty pre-jQuery application, drop in a single script tag, and start writing nicer code immediately with no fuss (and refactoring old crufty code as you touched it). You can't do that with React. I can't even imagine what it would take to migrate some 2010-era J2EE enterprise app t…

The comments in here today are a bit out of touch.

>You can't do that with React.

You can. Other than React's rather hefty size, there's nothing stopping you. React is just a view layer, is unopinionated about how you get your data to it, and for rendering to a DOM needs nothing other than a DOM node to render into.

Try it out. You can have 100 different React components slowly eating your legacy app alive. You just gotta be smart about it.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#96

Post by Everhusk »

incepted wrote: post #51
apalmer wrote: post #16

I am amazed by how the article attempts to look forward to what the future will hold with JavaScript frameworks... and yet seems to be completely both dismiss or misunderstand (perhaps willfully) why previous frameworks have succeeded. jQuery did not succeed because it was a 'good enough' competitor to dojo or prototype or mootools or extjs... it succeeded because it went completely the opposite direction. it did not…

jQuery filled a need. It's as simple as that. Its success has nothing to do with looking in the other direction or not redefining Javascript: it solved a problem that a lot of Javascript developers were struggling with. Now what's really fascinating to me now is that while one can safely say jQuery created a revolution in the Javascript world when it came out, it is today widely looked as a smell and avoided as much…

Meteor fills a need.

When a developer starts a new javascript project he/she is stuck with the task of choosing from an array of frameworks, backends, libraries, bundlers, etc.

Also, like jQuery, Meteor is doing something in the opposite direction as all of these other frameworks. Rather than being just one piece of the pie and leaving the rest up to the developer, it simplifies development end-to-end (in theory).

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#97

Post by frandroid »

gravity13 wrote: post #95
mkozlows wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be basically impossible for React to reach jQuery-like levels of adoption. The beauty of jQuery was that you could take an old, crufty pre-jQuery application, drop in a single script tag, and start writing nicer code immediately with no fuss (and refactoring old crufty code as you touched it). You can't do that with React. I can't even imagine what it would take to migrate some 2010-era J2EE enterprise app t…

The comments in here today are a bit out of touch. >You can't do that with React. You can. Other than React's rather hefty size, there's nothing stopping you. React is just a view layer, is unopinionated about how you get your data to it, and for rendering to a DOM needs nothing other than a DOM node to render into. Try it out. You can have 100 different React components slowly eating your legacy app alive. You just…

> You just gotta be smart about it.

They said _no fuss_.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#98

Post by pavlov »

xaduha wrote: post #92
Karunamon wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silly question - why are is everybody talking about jQuery in the past tense and why are you saying it "did not succeed"? It just got a beta release of a major version less than a week ago, it's a core part of Bootstrap, which just about anyone building webapps has used at some point, and depending on whose statistics you look at[1], powers a frankly absurd number of sites, including things everyone's heard of like M…

jQuery is not cool. It's been there, done that for most, we all know where that road leads.

...we all know where that road leads.

Code that works without surprises, experience that accumulates, projects that can be executed reliably?

But of course that's not much fun when compared to tinkering around with to-do example apps on the new new thing.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#99

Post by SignMeTheHELLUp »

pavlov wrote: post #98
xaduha wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jQuery is not cool. It's been there, done that for most, we all know where that road leads.

...we all know where that road leads. Code that works without surprises, experience that accumulates, projects that can be executed reliably? But of course that's not much fun when compared to tinkering around with to-do example apps on the new new thing.

Doesn't really scale to larger projects. Managing application and UI state becomes too cumbersome.

With that said the new things are still very rough, I agree, but they will make our lives easier after it all settles down. It's already beginning to settle down with React becoming semi-standard.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#100

Post by pedalpete »

I just started with Meteor a few weeks ago, and thought it was absolutely amazing as a prototyping tool. I figured I'd be recommending it to anybody doing an MVP.

I actually do believe there is a business model there, but it seems they are focused on the high-end with hosting and support starting at $500/month

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