Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup • Hacker News Board

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#91

Post by marrone12 » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 4:26 PM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

Well people would start to need paying for content instead of entitling themselves to have everything for free.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#92

Post by logingone » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 4:26 PM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need.

Interesting. I'm the opposite. I've yet to encounter an ad that has a hope in hell of manipulating me at all. I couldn't be more dismissive of them. And if I encounter one too often my dislike of the company starts to grow. "It's show time, and you've been coding like a beast..." really pissed me off. They're throwing garbage at me, they want my money, I want my money, I'm at war with them.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#93

Post by err4nt » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 4:26 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #53

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #27

Its by the same guy who donated to causes doing their best to make sure two people in love can't get married due to their gender. Sociopathy has many forms and its obvious to me that Eich is just an untrustworthy guy with a lot of bad ideas. Low-rent projects like these is just further evidence that you need a founder/leader you can trust. Its clear he's exhausted his social capital and at age 54 is far away from his…

I loathe Eich as a human being, and was very glad to see him ousted from a leadership position at Mozilla. However, this conversation is about a new company he created, where employees are free to make decisions about whether to join it fully cognizant of any personal issues Eich has with them, unlike the Mozilla position where a homophobe was placed in a position of power above existing employees. While it's fair to…

What makes him a homophobe? All I knew about was a political donation. Homophobe implies a fear or hatred of homosexuals, I haven't seen evidence for that yet. Does this word apply here?

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#94

Post by dominotw » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 4:26 PM UTC

linksbro wrote: post #76

vladikoff wrote: post #54

From a quick glance: 1) Desktop browser is an electron app with ad tracking injected into your app via http://cdn.brave.com/ (via https://sonobi.com/welcome/index.php which promises "EFFECTIVELY PLAN AND SOURCE MARKETING OPPORTUNITIES WITH QUALITY AND VIEWABILITY FROM PREMIUM PUBLISHERS" 2) iOS browser is a fork of Firefox iOS - https://github.com/mozilla/firefox-ios 3) Android browser is a fork of https://play.googl…

Looks like Eich is on the Advisory Board of sonobi. [1] [1] https://sonobi.com/welcome/company.php Edit: Removed comments about the diversity of sonobi, as they're not really relevant to the discussion.

not this garbage again.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#95

Post by ddalex » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 4:27 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #53

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #27

Its by the same guy who donated to causes doing their best to make sure two people in love can't get married due to their gender. Sociopathy has many forms and its obvious to me that Eich is just an untrustworthy guy with a lot of bad ideas. Low-rent projects like these is just further evidence that you need a founder/leader you can trust. Its clear he's exhausted his social capital and at age 54 is far away from his…

I loathe Eich as a human being, and was very glad to see him ousted from a leadership position at Mozilla. However, this conversation is about a new company he created, where employees are free to make decisions about whether to join it fully cognizant of any personal issues Eich has with them, unlike the Mozilla position where a homophobe was placed in a position of power above existing employees. While it's fair to…

Exactly what impact have Eich's personal opinions on stuff on the technology he creates ? I mean, everybody is free to choose the technology that they want to use based on whatever criteria they choose, but personal believes of the programmer have no impact on how good the program is.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#96

Post by ams6110 » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 4:27 PM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

I'm exactly the opposite. I've never intentionally clicked on a web ad. Most of the time I mentally filter them, and don't really even notice them. I don't feel that ads manipulate me -- but they do slow me down. So I use a hosts file which is IMHO the best result/least effort approach, but I try ad blockers occasionally.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#97

Post by jordigh » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 4:28 PM UTC

logingone wrote: post #92

jordigh wrote: post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. Interesting. I'm the opposite. I've yet to encounter an ad that has a hope in hell of manipulating me at all. I couldn't be more dismissive of them. And if I encounter one too often my dislike of the company starts to grow. "It's show time, and you've b…

> I've yet to encounter an ad that has a hope in hell of manipulating me at all.

If you know what "just do it", "the happiest place on Earth", "think different", or "the world's most advanced operating system" refer to, you've already been manipulated. A lot of ads are just about making sure you have a particular brand in mind and you're keenly aware of that brand's existence. Then, when time comes around to actually buy something, you'll think back to that brand. There's a lot of sneaky group psychology in the advertising industry.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#98

Post by lmm » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 4:28 PM UTC

Klathmon wrote: post #63

lmm wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found web adverts got a lot more annoying after Firefox started including a pop-up blocker by default. That was when we started seeing pop-unders, animated Flash ads and all that.

I've been saying for years that blockers just remove the good guys. What's the point in trying to make a safe, non-tracking, curated ad network when you will just be blocked by everyone anyway? All adblockers do its turn the game into a race to the bottom. Whoever can get the most invasive ads past the most blockers is the winner. Any company that isn't willing to play dirty will be left behind. Content creators won'…

Unfortunately the same pressures apply on the user side too. Whoever makes the most aggressive adblocker wins the users, and at the same time makes it worse for anyone who isn't using their adblocker.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#99

Post by roneesh » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

anotherhacker wrote: post #45

I'm doubtful of this taking off. People stick with the default apps and settings. The average person just really doesn't care that much about this kind of thing. Maybe enterprise or businesses will like it - so they can avoid their employees visit whitelisted sites that mistakenly have malicious code in the ads. Eg. Flash

I'm not so sure that the average person won't care. They are increasingly aware of how much they pay for data on their phone plans, and how crossing limits decreases their speeds. After a big bill or two, people start looking for options.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#100

Post by reubenmorais » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #72

m52go wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a mistake. Firefox is referenced throughout the documentation. Looks like Brave is built on top of it.

Mozilla is very protective of their trademark though. You're supposed to replace their branding with your own before distributing your modified code.

You're supposed to remove the branding from the binary — as in user visible logos and names —, not the source code.

You can't reasonably expect forks to remove all the thousands of references to "Firefox" from the source code, like in comments, component names, etc.