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The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

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Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#91

Post by uptownJimmy »

ianamartin wrote: post #84
minimaxir wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I completely fail to understand why some developers seem to be allergic to learning about data structures and the means of query-ing them I'm not a fan of Meteor's dependency of Mongo either, but proper database architecture for a rDBMS is not an obvious skill. Even with an ORM (Rails/Django), it still takes care to set up PK/FK relationships and that's not necessarily taught in a CS curriculum. Mongo would be suff…

I might be speaking to a sparse audience here, but I don't come from a CS curriculum. I'm a violinist and a music theorist who happens to have learned enough to make a better living by writing code. I don't know what gets taught in CS degree plans. But I will say that if I can learn how to model, query, and display data, then pretty much anyone can. Especially those with the benefit of a CS degree. I don't use an ORM…

I have no use for a dev stack that is tied firmly to a db that is incapable of handling relational data properly. Many, many devs agree.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#93

Post by ccallebs »

popmystack wrote: post #85
wreford wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry... Literally your entire posting history is negative without adding any value. Why is that? I personally enjoy seeing people voice their mistakes in a honest way so the rest of us can learn. Edit *your

Where do you see negativity? How is his comment adding any value? "We chose a stack we didn't fully understand after trying it for less than a week and it turns out we didn't know everything about it!" Also it's "your", not "you're."

> Where do you see negativity?

The same place you saw the negativity, which is why you prefaced the sentence with "I'm sorry."

One should not assume someone's technical prowess based on one poor decision (a decision they've recognized as suboptimal). Also, they still shipped.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#94

Post by rafaquintanilha »

The major benefit of Meteor (at least for me) always was its quick bootstrap. So you want start coding or work on a mock-up? Just meteor create myapp and start. No boilerplate. No script and style tags. Heck, add bootstrap with a single line of command and you start with fine-grained classes! Sure you might need a database... don't worry! No need for schema, modeling, whatever, the server is already there and so the database.

Eventually you might want to scale and then, as in any library/framework/platform things will get a little more complicated. I don't see it as a problem, really.

Meteor always was opinionated and maybe some opinions were unpopular from the beginning (MongoDB, for example). But when you start adding multiciplity (React/Blaze/Angular for the frontend, Iron Router/Flow Router/React Router for routing, Meteor Package System/NPM...) you can lose the track. I'm afraid this is happening now.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#95

Post by explorer666 »

ams6110 wrote: post #70
marknutter wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think our biggest mistake was biting off more than we could chew in using React and Meteor, when we had never made an app using either before. I see people make this mistake over and over again. It's so easy to underestimate the cost of learning something new. Often times it's best to just go with what you already know until you've done enough non-mission critical in the shiny new thing to be confident in it.

It's why PHP still thrives.

Or because it's a mature language, with a robust, very rich and up-to-date ecosystem.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#96

Post by nichochar »

vjeux wrote: post #81
nichochar wrote: post #76

Honestly, I used meteor and tried pretty hard, I went to their hackathons, etc... I just don't think it's as good as the other options technically (does not scale well as a server, which is a problem for most applications). More importantly, as a developer, I do not believe VC money should be bringing opinions to the open source community (which is what this is) is a bad idea. The whole point of open source projects…

How would you like ambitious projects to be funded instead?

I think the idea is good, but in this case the funding happened too early.

I think open source should have a VC mechanism going on, but first you have to prove your worth to the community.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#97

Post by stared »

rafaquintanilha wrote: post #94

The major benefit of Meteor (at least for me) always was its quick bootstrap. So you want start coding or work on a mock-up? Just meteor create myapp and start. No boilerplate. No script and style tags. Heck, add bootstrap with a single line of command and you start with fine-grained classes! Sure you might need a database... don't worry! No need for schema, modeling, whatever, the server is already there and so the…

I concur. The strong part of Meteor is its easy way start (both a project and diving in web dev).

For experienced web developers, or people building bigger projects, easy start (and whole magics) is incompatible with high modularization and ability to easily tweak anything.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#98

Post by popmystack »

ccallebs wrote: post #93
popmystack wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you see negativity? How is his comment adding any value? "We chose a stack we didn't fully understand after trying it for less than a week and it turns out we didn't know everything about it!" Also it's "your", not "you're."

> Where do you see negativity? The same place you saw the negativity, which is why you prefaced the sentence with "I'm sorry." One should not assume someone's technical prowess based on one poor decision (a decision they've recognized as suboptimal). Also, they still shipped.

That's a ridiculous statement. "I'm sorry" is not an indication of negativity. Nor is it indicative of my posting history. Apparently criticism is simply not allowed. Sorry to poke the fluff that is somehow being perceived as value.

You most definitely can judge someone's technical prowess as well based on their decisions. I am not sure how you're going to grey-wash this into some kind of innocent mistake. The decision that was made reeks of novice motivations and perspectives.

I asked a very blatant question, if one is going to go off of titles, how does a CTO and lead engineer (or anyone leading any kind of project) make such a novice mistake, together nonetheless. My apologies for not echoing commendations.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#99

Post by yawboakye »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #40
primigenus wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's avoid turning this into a "Meteor is doomed" or "Meteor failed" comment thread; Meteor is and has been growing consistently since it launched (see: https://twitter.com/Rahul/status/673992512768507905 ). The title of Sacha's post reads a bit inflammatory, suggesting something "went" wrong and that it's too late now. Rather, as his post explains, the community is currently in a bit of an identity crisis as two gr…

Agreed. This seems to be the same issue with other frameworks when they get to a point where they have enough adaptation and find out they need to change/update parts of their framework to get it to the next level. Same thing is happening right now with AngularJS. Been around for a while, had massive adaptation, then they realized they needed to make major changes. Enter pivot to 2.0 which pissed a lot of people off,…

Rails didn't hit that wall. Neither will Ember. FYI Ember is introducing new ideas by the second (pods, composable components, components over controllers, DDAU, etc) but the community eagerly awaits and embraces them. I don't know why that is.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#100

Post by muloka »

magicmu wrote: post #23

The startup I'm with right now just finished a meteor/react project that I led. This article really touched on our major pain-point with the learning cliff that you hit after a certain point. We used FlowRouter since it has React support, but managing subscriptions correctly (let alone caching them) took way more time than we had anticipated. It wasn't until near the end of the project that we realized none of us act…

If you had to do it all over again what would have been your choice(s)?
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