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Academics, we need to talk
91–100 of 170 posts
Re: Academics, we need to talk
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think I agree with samth - it's not the academia, but the industry who needs to open up. Especially Google has a reputation of being very secretive.
You and samth seem to be missing the point: academic research is often built using methods that will ensure no real-world success while aiming to achieve real-world success. Factoring in real-world constraints, best practices, and existing work-arounds will let academics achieve better results on average. Baseline of practicality goes up. And again, these are all academic projects that aim at being practical. The poi…
I'm glad you like Racket, but it's really not the case that what we need is to spend time in a Google product group to make Racket better.
Re: Academics, we need to talk
#93Now, I don't think all academic research has to be relevant to industry. I'm getting kind of sick of this tactic, where this fake concession is made before going on about how academia isn't designed well enough to deliver to industry. If authors of articles like this didn't care about the efficiency of academia to deliver them research, what's the big deal if there are a bunch of people somewhere running around in ci…
I'm getting kind of sick of this tactic, where this fake concession is made before going on about how academia isn't designed well enough to deliver to industry.
This +1, er +1,000,000.
I would firmly state that academia by definition is not supposed to 'deliver to industry', and not even to society. The whole point of academia is to give the very smartest people (whatever that means) the freedom to explore ideas, so that a some point humanity may benefit from their ideas, experiments, and research.
My point is that it could be any number of generations of research from the current generation of (what seems like quack) research (to the establishment) will turn into being instrumental to our understanding of the universe. Galileo Galilei (and Copernicus) for instance. Their ideas (and research) did not sit well with the establishment of the Church (which was pretty much the central authority of everything at the time), but their ideas are now central to our understanding of our Solar system.
edit: formatting.
Re: Academics, we need to talk
#94Now, I don't think all academic research has to be relevant to industry. I'm getting kind of sick of this tactic, where this fake concession is made before going on about how academia isn't designed well enough to deliver to industry. If authors of articles like this didn't care about the efficiency of academia to deliver them research, what's the big deal if there are a bunch of people somewhere running around in ci…
I'm getting kind of sick of this tactic, where this fake concession is made before going on about how academia isn't designed well enough to deliver to industry. This +1, er +1,000,000. I would firmly state that academia by definition is not supposed to 'deliver to industry', and not even to society. The whole point of academia is to give the very smartest people (whatever that means) the freedom to explore ideas, so…
There is an attitude of entitlement here.
Students spend their money and time to learn something and frequently they get worked like a racehorse and nobody cares about if what they learn is transferable after the academic system no longer needs them.
If you are not going to be relevant to society the only thing I can do is vote for somebody who is going to cut your research budget.
Re: Academics, we need to talk
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
(I'm the author of the original blog post.) Ad hominem attacks aside, I do think it's a big deal if a bunch of academics are spending time working on the wrong things, if for no better reason than maximizing efficiency: Don't forget that most academic research is funded by the government. Since I also happen to help decide which research proposals Google funds, I also care that academics are well-aligned with the pro…
I agree with you completely about "bad industry-focused research". It serves no end. My question is that, is it just a reflection of mediocracy and gaming/dishonesty being everywhere, including academica ? In this case, please trying to take shortcuts towards their goal of improving the amount of publications and grant approvals. There is reward in the system for this kind of behaviour. You being a reviewer/jury posi…
I worked in industry research for a long time and almost every intern or new hire came in with laughably wrong assumptions, but it wasn't due to mediocracy, gaming, or dishonesty. They just didn't have anywhere to learn from. Their assumptions were copied from earlier "best paper" winners in the field whose assumptions were copied from a random previous paper whose assumptions were probably mostly speculation.
Re: Academics, we need to talk
#96Now, I don't think all academic research has to be relevant to industry. I'm getting kind of sick of this tactic, where this fake concession is made before going on about how academia isn't designed well enough to deliver to industry. If authors of articles like this didn't care about the efficiency of academia to deliver them research, what's the big deal if there are a bunch of people somewhere running around in ci…
(I'm the author of the original blog post.) Ad hominem attacks aside, I do think it's a big deal if a bunch of academics are spending time working on the wrong things, if for no better reason than maximizing efficiency: Don't forget that most academic research is funded by the government. Since I also happen to help decide which research proposals Google funds, I also care that academics are well-aligned with the pro…
I also care that academics are well-aligned with the problems we care about.
That is not the point of academia, and indeed not the point of why academics are offered tenure with their institutions. Please consider Galileo and Copernicus and the Church of the 15th and 16th centuries. Please consider history.
Google as a business may care about research being aligned with its business, or what 'society' or certain segments of society care about; Google really should not care what academia and academics want to work on. That is the point of, for better or worse, academia: independent research by some of our smartest people.
If Google, and industry, care about what gets research, they should fund it. They then can choose. Please leave academia and academics to be just that, academic.
Without government funding, support, and indeed the wider academia 'ecosystem', my father would have never been able to be a historian of the Scottish enlightenment, and producing the seminal book on Adam Smith. And if you don't think that the Scottish Enlightenment is important to our modern understanding of the Universe, then I suppose that you then have to rethink the contributions of these notable academics, scientists, engineers, and philosophers: David Hume, McLaren, Taylor, James Watt, Telford, Napier--off the top of my head.
My point is that my fathers book may not itself be a major contribution to a current revolutionary idea, but it will likely be part of some future realisation about economics, since Adam Smith is a major cornerstone of our current understanding of economic thought.
Re: Academics, we need to talk
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm getting kind of sick of this tactic, where this fake concession is made before going on about how academia isn't designed well enough to deliver to industry. This +1, er +1,000,000. I would firmly state that academia by definition is not supposed to 'deliver to industry', and not even to society. The whole point of academia is to give the very smartest people (whatever that means) the freedom to explore ideas, so…
There is an attitude of entitlement here. Students spend their money and time to learn something and frequently they get worked like a racehorse and nobody cares about if what they learn is transferable after the academic system no longer needs them. If you are not going to be relevant to society the only thing I can do is vote for somebody who is going to cut your research budget.
That's a tremendously short sighted view to take. It's very hard to judge relevance to society over short time frames.
Re: Academics, we need to talk
#98Now, I don't think all academic research has to be relevant to industry. I'm getting kind of sick of this tactic, where this fake concession is made before going on about how academia isn't designed well enough to deliver to industry. If authors of articles like this didn't care about the efficiency of academia to deliver them research, what's the big deal if there are a bunch of people somewhere running around in ci…
(I'm the author of the original blog post.) Ad hominem attacks aside, I do think it's a big deal if a bunch of academics are spending time working on the wrong things, if for no better reason than maximizing efficiency: Don't forget that most academic research is funded by the government. Since I also happen to help decide which research proposals Google funds, I also care that academics are well-aligned with the pro…
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Re: Academics, we need to talk
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
(I'm the author of the original blog post.) Ad hominem attacks aside, I do think it's a big deal if a bunch of academics are spending time working on the wrong things, if for no better reason than maximizing efficiency: Don't forget that most academic research is funded by the government. Since I also happen to help decide which research proposals Google funds, I also care that academics are well-aligned with the pro…
I also care that academics are well-aligned with the problems we care about. That is not the point of academia, and indeed not the point of why academics are offered tenure with their institutions. Please consider Galileo and Copernicus and the Church of the 15th and 16th centuries. Please consider history. Google as a business may care about research being aligned with its business, or what 'society' or certain segm…
I would further add that Google, and similar technologica enterprise are some of the richest organisations of all time. I'm not sure about comparison to the Spanish Empire, however Google and 'Industry' can well afford to pay for their own research. If you have not been to Seville, and other major European Empirical cities, Rome, Paris, London, St Petersburg, Berlin, etc, then I recommend that you do a bit of travelling in Europe and witness the legacy of the dangers of what happens when money and power have no checks.
Re: Academics, we need to talk
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm getting kind of sick of this tactic, where this fake concession is made before going on about how academia isn't designed well enough to deliver to industry. This +1, er +1,000,000. I would firmly state that academia by definition is not supposed to 'deliver to industry', and not even to society. The whole point of academia is to give the very smartest people (whatever that means) the freedom to explore ideas, so…
There is an attitude of entitlement here. Students spend their money and time to learn something and frequently they get worked like a racehorse and nobody cares about if what they learn is transferable after the academic system no longer needs them. If you are not going to be relevant to society the only thing I can do is vote for somebody who is going to cut your research budget.
As would others vote to continue it.
Relevance is a very broad term, with industry a subset.