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The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#91

Post by fudged71 »

bosdev wrote: post #24
hias wrote: post #21

Sorry, but how can this be legal? With his homemade solution, he is not only endangering himself but all the other people in the cars around him. Usually before you are allowed to use something like this on a public road your stuff has to be tested and approved by the state. At least this is how it is in Europe, does this not matter in the states?

He's sitting behind the wheel ready to take over, it's not quite the same as making a cup of tea while the car drives itself.

You are, of course, assuming that his system was built properly to maintain manual override. If the vehicle is drive-by-wire, I have no idea if his way of hacking the vehicle would have possibly impeded those systems.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#92

Post by hueving »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #43
jpfr wrote: post #37

Prototypical case of the 80/20 rule. He has implemented the happy case. But that system is nothing people realistically would want to drive their cars. What he did is impressive. But the results are not that outlandish for a talented person. 1) Hook up a computer to the CAN-Bus network of the car [1] and attach a bunch of sensor peripherals. 2) Drive around for some time and record everything to disk. 3) Implement so…

I'm not confident we can argue Google or anyone else has done much better. You might notice Google has never announced testing their cars where snow occurs, for example. I think it's likely that much more of self-driving car development is smoke and mirrors than people realize. Best case scenarios are promoted as examples of how innovative a company is. Great PR, not necessarily a practical result.

>I'm not confident we can argue Google or anyone else has done much better. You might notice Google has never announced testing their cars where snow occurs, for example.

This is a sensor limitation. They have fully admitted this several times (heavy rain too). Equating the fact that this guy can't handle any emergency situations with a sensor limitation all of the lidar systems suffer from is stupid.

Google has shown many times that they have logic to handle routes around obstructions, construction, etc as well as cars running red lights, pedestrians walking into the street, etc. At least read up on something before you call it smoke and mirrors.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#93

Post by shpx »

mwnz wrote: post #70
jaybosamiya wrote: post #44

> The last people with jobs will be AI programmers Geohotz makes a decent point. The way the industrial revolution reduced manual labour, and made thinkers and tinkerers much more valuable, the advent of AI (true AI, mind you, not the tiny stuff that we currently assume) might actually make us obsolete. It is a peaceful and yet terrifying thought.

How on earth is this a peaceful thought?

Because wage slavery is ultimately not much better than slavery, and its abolishment does not necessitate the collapse of society. A world where no one is forced to work is a better world.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#94

Post by Dylan16807 »

mturmon wrote: post #69
thedz wrote: post #4

> “I understand the state-of-the-art papers,” he says. “The math is simple. For the first time in my life, I’m like, ‘I know everything there is to know.’ ” Yep, he's still in his twenties.

I cringed. Saying "the math is simple" -- ouch. The writer must have been barely able to suppress his glee when that one popped out.

While I don't know a lot about the subject, I would bet that's likely right. As in, there are very hard problems, but the actual mathematics are not all that hard.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#95

Post by jpfr »

bcohn91 wrote: post #46
jpfr wrote: post #37

Prototypical case of the 80/20 rule. He has implemented the happy case. But that system is nothing people realistically would want to drive their cars. What he did is impressive. But the results are not that outlandish for a talented person. 1) Hook up a computer to the CAN-Bus network of the car [1] and attach a bunch of sensor peripherals. 2) Drive around for some time and record everything to disk. 3) Implement so…

Why is the first comment on HN minimizing this truly impressive project? Of course it's not perfect, he's ONE person.

The guy clearly is technically brilliant. But I was referring to the results. Not how the results were achieved.

In the video, he claims to want to achieve level 3 driving. Let's see how he can do the following under non-perfect conditions:

- switching lanes

- stopping at lights

- turning cornerns

- turning left corners in traffic

Then we can move on to the more difficult situations.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#96

Post by mipapage »

thedz wrote: post #4

> “I understand the state-of-the-art papers,” he says. “The math is simple. For the first time in my life, I’m like, ‘I know everything there is to know.’ ” Yep, he's still in his twenties.

"I know everything there is to know."

I kind of took that to be like how Musk talks about needing to know first principles. In the article you can see that he was humble about what he thought he knew, took jobs here and there and eventually confirmed that he was at the cutting edge, that he knew 'everything there is to know' about this special area.

That's when he realized that he was qualified to try this. IMO, anyway ;)

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#97

Post by kbenson »

thedz wrote: post #13
buro9 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that belief is enough to attempt something that more experienced people would hesitate to start. Naivety is a very good thing at times. I've seen average people achieve incredible things, and not because what they did was incredible... but just because they started work on things that no-one else thought they could complete. Some way into it, when enough progress has been made, people have rushed to give support…

I don't disagree with that. I've worked with some very smart people in my 20s who sounded similar to Hotz -- enthusiastic, retrospectively naive about their understanding of a field, but above all, superbly intelligent. They did really great things, things that maybe didn't work perfectly or as envisioned, but still things that might scared off more experienced folks. But also now that I am in my 30s, and they are as…

There have been people in my past that wanted to start a project that I didn't think they were capable of finishing, because either it was too large, they didn't have the skills/smarts (not that I thought they were stupid, just that I thought it would take exceptional intelligence), or both. A few of them succeeded, either in the original task, or the effort and journey was well worth the price paid.

Part of this was hubris. The thought of someone I considered less capable than myself accomplishing something I felt I could not damaged my ego. This was humbling.

Part of this was experience. The experience to know that attempting the hard or impossible is sometimes worth the effort, whether you succeed or not. This was educational.

Part of this was ambition. Ambition to do something new, to ignore the naysayers and noways when needed, and forge your own path, which I've always felt short on, but have steadily worked on over time. This is ongoing.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#98

Post by ocdtrekkie »

hueving wrote: post #92
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not confident we can argue Google or anyone else has done much better. You might notice Google has never announced testing their cars where snow occurs, for example. I think it's likely that much more of self-driving car development is smoke and mirrors than people realize. Best case scenarios are promoted as examples of how innovative a company is. Great PR, not necessarily a practical result.

>I'm not confident we can argue Google or anyone else has done much better. You might notice Google has never announced testing their cars where snow occurs, for example. This is a sensor limitation. They have fully admitted this several times (heavy rain too). Equating the fact that this guy can't handle any emergency situations with a sensor limitation all of the lidar systems suffer from is stupid. Google has show…

I actually have read up on it before I called it smoke and mirrors. While this is a year ago now, this is well after their cars were heavily marketed as being pretty sufficient and capable of detecting problems. ...Yet it couldn't detect the existence of a stoplight if it wasn't explicitly mapped ahead of time. And apparently, according to a Googler, the mapping required to make a road work with Google's self-driving car system is "impractical" to do at a nationwide scale.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/10/...

I'm not saying it won't ever happen, I'm not saying there haven't been developments in the technology. But people seem to have a disconnect in expectations of where the technology is, and where marketing departments for these tech companies want you to believe the technology is.

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