Everyone’s been rejected – these are our stories • Hacker News Board

Re: Everyone’s been rejected – these are our stories

#91

Post by thewarrior » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 10:25 AM UTC

fffrad wrote: post #85

It's interesting how in our current time, if you work at Twitter, facebook, google, or a famous start up, it is synonymous to "I made it".

Because it is. Once you land a position at the big 4 you're (potentially) on a multi decade gravy train that just keeps on giving.

Even a short stint and an "Ex-Googler" tag on your resume is enough to open doors and keep landing gigs years into the future.

Moreover the top firms are known for engineering the shit out of their software. You're much less likely to run into really bad code or stagnate.

So its definitely worth sacrificing a bit to try and get in.

Re: Everyone’s been rejected – these are our stories

#92

Post by will_pseudonym » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 10:25 AM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #87

will_pseudonym wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring bad people is signaling to your existing, well functioning team, that you care about the bottom line more than their experience & happiness. It drives good people away, because firing bad apples is way harder than it should be...

I don't disagree with this, but being extra fussy at the interview stage does not mean you can avoid bad hires, or even that you will hire better people on average. Better to be clear about what you expect and serious enough to deal with it if you get it wrong.

If you'll notice, I never talked about any interviewing! :) We were talking about pre-hire as a state. It's just that usually that state and (formal) interviews go hand in hand. Interviews are a poor way to hire in general. I think having water cooler type experiences before people are hired, and doing away with formal interviews would be great. This works amazingly well for the most effective teams--the rich get richer in this way, too. Love talking about this stuff! Have a great day!

Re: Everyone’s been rejected – these are our stories

#93

Post by neofrommatrix » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 10:26 AM UTC

neofrommatrix wrote: post #61

I recently interviewed at very hot container startup. I had 1 phone screen, 6 on-sites, and 2 follow up phone calls. I did well in the phone screen to be invited onsite. Apparently, I did great on the 6 interviews onsite and then they wanted to have a follow up phone call with a manager (30 mins). That was positive too. But, the last phone call was set up with the SVP who determined that I was not a good "culture fit…

starts with D, btw.

Re: Everyone’s been rejected – these are our stories

#94

Post by eshvk » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 10:30 AM UTC

kzhahou wrote: post #74

Companies keep files on candidates, which generally makes sense for tracking purposes, but they can be counter-productive at the big companies. I go in and apply. I meet with 6 people out of thousands, representing 1-3 teams out of hundreds. It doesn't work out, for any of reasons, some of them just luck of the draw. But now my interview is in the system and will be forever referenced. I'm given a polite but non-info…

This happens at the developer level too. Of course, occasionally there may be a candidate who is just not there yet. So companies ask you to wait, some for X months other for X years and then reapply. An engineering position is sometimes about the skill sets; my team looks for ML and Data folks. But sometimes it is also about solid engineering chops and some people just need to work more on those. That is not a bad thing; it is just a thing.

Re: Everyone’s been rejected – these are our stories

#95

Post by eshvk » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 10:32 AM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #77

hmate9 wrote: post #68

The reason why there are so many rejections is because companies are trying to minimse the false positives instead of minimising the false negatives.

I am not sure why companies are so paranoid about false positives. Apart from the the lack of evidence that being extra picky is helpful, you can always fire if the candidate does not meet your standards. Be crystal clear about what you expect and cut if it is not met.

I prefer the dating analogy. Why would a guy or a girl go into a relationship and terminate if standards aren't met as opposed to stopping post X dates? I want to work with a coworker who has my back in the trenches. If I don't get that vibe in an interview, why would I say yes?

Re: Everyone’s been rejected – these are our stories

#96

Post by danieltillett » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 10:36 AM UTC

eshvk wrote: post #95

danieltillett wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why companies are so paranoid about false positives. Apart from the the lack of evidence that being extra picky is helpful, you can always fire if the candidate does not meet your standards. Be crystal clear about what you expect and cut if it is not met.

I prefer the dating analogy. Why would a guy or a girl go into a relationship and terminate if standards aren't met as opposed to stopping post X dates? I want to work with a coworker who has my back in the trenches. If I don't get that vibe in an interview, why would I say yes?

Dating is a great analogy. Hiring someone is like going on a date, but companies are treating it like it is a marriage.

Re: Everyone’s been rejected – these are our stories

#97

Post by danieltillett » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 10:43 AM UTC

will_pseudonym wrote: post #92

danieltillett wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with this, but being extra fussy at the interview stage does not mean you can avoid bad hires, or even that you will hire better people on average. Better to be clear about what you expect and serious enough to deal with it if you get it wrong.

If you'll notice, I never talked about any interviewing! :) We were talking about pre-hire as a state. It's just that usually that state and (formal) interviews go hand in hand. Interviews are a poor way to hire in general. I think having water cooler type experiences before people are hired, and doing away with formal interviews would be great. This works amazingly well for the most effective teams--the rich get ric…

In an ideal world both employer and employee would have more time to learn if they are a compatible fit. In practice we have a pretend process where both sides lie to each other and it is only by chance that it works out. I would like to see a world where everyone was more honest about what they expected and where learning that they weren't a match did not mean that one party was wrong.

Re: Everyone’s been rejected – these are our stories

#98

Post by stevedonovan » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 10:50 AM UTC

techdragon wrote: post #30

andrewstuart wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing wrong with JavaScript, as long as we are talking about ES2015. And even when WebAssembly comes along, the best language to program it in is one that naturally requires asynchronous programming, because web browsers are heavy on network traffic and UI interaction and both those things need asynchronous programming. Other languages like Python have asynch programming but I would suggest that the pervasive natur…

JavaScript is a perfectly fine language but... I find the 'ecosystem' unpleasant. Every time I turn to JavaScript for something, the barrier to entry for non trivial work rises. JavaScript feels to me... As a programmer working 8 hours a day in Python much significant portions of it doing Django, and a few hours a week learning Elixir, C and Rust... Like the whole world is rolling up a giant katamari daciamacy ball,…

No wonder people keep churning out new js libraries - it's their attempt to cope with the churn, actually creating more churn in the process.

Re: Everyone’s been rejected – these are our stories

#99

Post by will_pseudonym » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 11:12 AM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #97

will_pseudonym wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you'll notice, I never talked about any interviewing! :) We were talking about pre-hire as a state. It's just that usually that state and (formal) interviews go hand in hand. Interviews are a poor way to hire in general. I think having water cooler type experiences before people are hired, and doing away with formal interviews would be great. This works amazingly well for the most effective teams--the rich get ric…

In an ideal world both employer and employee would have more time to learn if they are a compatible fit. In practice we have a pretend process where both sides lie to each other and it is only by chance that it works out. I would like to see a world where everyone was more honest about what they expected and where learning that they weren't a match did not mean that one party was wrong.

That's the world I'm striving to create! Email me if you ever want to work with someone with similar values. I know lots of people. I like to make my fiancé roll her eyes at me by telling people I'm the Kanye West of networking. ;) But seriously though, I love serving people and making others happy, and I'm an amazing long term recruiter...

Re: Everyone’s been rejected – these are our stories

#100

Post by sharpy » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 11:13 AM UTC

jdoliner wrote: post #71

> I was rejected at Amazon and other companies with no technical interviews because I wasn't a Java engineer. That one seems pretty legit to me.

They hired me despite my not knowing any Java. I was there for close to 5 years and did my share of interviewing and I haven't seen a single instance where lack of specific programming language skill was brought up as a reason to reject the candidate. But yeh, the whole hiring process is more random than it should be.