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Ways to start eating insects

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Ways to start eating insects

#91

Post by shalmanese »

aurizon wrote: post #79

We eat birds and animals because they have high efficiency skeletons and circulation systems so they grow to large sizes and so their muscles become larger. Insects have exoskeletons and the spiracle based (air pipes throughout their flesh) respiratory system places limits on their sizes. If grasshoppers grew to be as big as cows, I am sure they would provide harvestable muscle masses to eat. As it is, the work of ha…

You don't need to individually butcher insects. You can just dump a whole load of crickets into a deep fryer and eat them like potato chips.

Re: Ways to start eating insects

#92

Post by cgh »

PerfectElement wrote: post #34
BenderV wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked myself the same question. Why do we need to replace meat by something? Are vegans really lacking protein? Moreover, even if it's true, if we just take into account an important diminution of the meat consumption, will people lack proteins? I'm assuming we eat more meat than we ever did in our history.

Right, vegans are not protein deficient and many people thrive on high carb diets (see blue zones, adventist health studies, etc.) Unfortunately we've all been bombarded with the protein myth (more protein == healthier) and even the smart people of HN can't seem to question this belief objectively.

Vegans may not be deficient but they certainly aren't anywhere close to optimal. That's why very few strength and power athletes are vegans or vegetarians.

People who concern themselves with building lean muscle mass, like me, do not seriously entertain the thought of plant-based diets, let alone high-carb ones. All of the data says otherwise: if you want to build lean muscle, eat quality protein that the human body will use most effectively. That means animals.

If you are a non-athletic, sedentary person then I imagine a vegan diet would work, though I question the use of the word "thrive".

Re: Ways to start eating insects

#93

Post by noondip »

jp555 wrote: post #70
noondip wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Too much carbohydrates are supposed to be bad. Carbohydrates are your body and brain's preferred energy source. What makes you think consuming too many is, "bad"? If derived from whole plant sources, carbs are fantastic and shouldn't be restricted.

by the time it hits the bloodstream the carbs in an apple and those in a bowl of lucky charms are identical. it's all broken down into identical fructose and glucose molecules.

The processes by which the two "hit the bloodstream" are quite different. For example, an apple has fiber and phytonutrients which slow the absorption of glucose. Whole fruits are so unlike processed breakfast cereals, I think it's a stretch to say their metabolization is identical.

Re: Ways to start eating insects

#94

Post by noondip »

pheroden wrote: post #81
noondip wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some soy is fine, but if we're talking as completely replacing your meat, it could be too much estrogen like compounds. Are you aware there's estrogen found in virtually all animal products, in concentrations and potency many times greater than any phytoestrogens could possibly deliver? > Hence breasts in men and an increased risk of breast cancer in women. Your source for this claim? I've only found evidence to th…

Hey, that's great, I hadn't done a deep look for a while. Regardless, my point was more with using it as your only source of protein, which none of these address.

Considering every whole plant food is a complete protein source, a diet consisting of only tofu is impractical and unpalatable, which is why you'll unlikely find such a study.

Re: Ways to start eating insects

#95

Post by nawitus »

vlehto wrote: post #89
ekianjo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I have yet to see a convincing argument that it is cheaper and more sustainable than soy protein, aka tofu. This, and I'd like to see a convincing argument that it's actually delicious to eat. Eating is not just about surviving, it should be a pleasure as well, and I think you need to overcome a lot of barriers before you can actually put an insect in your mouth, no matter how "good" it's supposed to be for you…

I'd like to taste a convincing argument that tofu is actually delicious to eat. I'd rather eat fried ants.

Do you know how to perfectly prepare tofu?

Re: Ways to start eating insects

#96

Post by SwellJoe »

shalmanese wrote: post #91
aurizon wrote: post #79

We eat birds and animals because they have high efficiency skeletons and circulation systems so they grow to large sizes and so their muscles become larger. Insects have exoskeletons and the spiracle based (air pipes throughout their flesh) respiratory system places limits on their sizes. If grasshoppers grew to be as big as cows, I am sure they would provide harvestable muscle masses to eat. As it is, the work of ha…

You don't need to individually butcher insects. You can just dump a whole load of crickets into a deep fryer and eat them like potato chips.

That's not a meal, though. It's a somewhat unhealthy snack, comparable to pork rinds, perhaps (more protein and less fat, perhaps, but still unhealthy). A vision of a future that has humans consuming insects on a large scale needs to involve meals made of insects, not snack foods that are much more expensive and only moderately more nutritive than their plant or animal based alternatives.

The environmental and economic cost has to be lower than the current alternatives (if not now, during the infancy of the market, then eventually, once mass production has been figured out), or it doesn't make sense to pursue it. It's already an uphill battle to convince people that bugs are food.

Re: Ways to start eating insects

#97

Post by noondip »

briHass wrote: post #74
noondip wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please check the citations carefully. The very first one I opened said, > Funding sources: Illinois Council on Food and Agricultural Research, National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, The Beef Board, Kraft Foods, National Science Foundation (PI: Layman). Dr Layman has participated in speaker bureaus for the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association and the National Dairy Council. Another reported, > Supported by a Medical…

Conflicts of interest are almost always present with something as fiercely debated as nutrition. On the low-protein side, much of the research is performed or reported by biased organizations like Center for Science in the Public Interest. Even if a moral case can be made for not eating animals, it shouldn't be allowed to influence nutritional science. Attacking conflicts of interest is an easy out (ad hominem); do y…

I propose the following - nutrition is only perceived to be "fiercely debated" because of research with conflict of interest.

Could you cite any examples of purportedly biased "low-protein" researched funded by that group you've mentioned? I'd like to take a look.

The high-protein diet fads are not new. You can find a lot of information discrediting their authors and methodology. Here is just one example,

> There are two kinds of high-protein diets popular today: Those that limit calorie intake by causing the body to develop a metabolic state known as ketosis; and those that make stringent rules which limit the dieter’s intake of food.

> The “ketogenic diets” cause the body to produce ketones by severe restriction of carbohydrate intake while allowing unlimited fat and protein intake. With insufficient intake of the body’s primary fuel, carbohydrate, the body turns to fats from foods and from body fat for fuel. Byproducts of this metabolism are acidic substances called ketones (acetacetic acid, B-hydroxybuteric acid, and acetone). The metabolic condition is known as ketosis. Ketosis is associated with loss of appetite, nausea, fatigue, and hypotension (lower blood pressure). The result is a decrease in food (calorie) intake. Ketosis is the key to the diet’s success, by allowing the body to starve while reducing the suffering of severe hunger pangs.

> This same condition, ketosis, occurs naturally when people are literally starving to death or seriously ill. During starvation this metabolic state is a kindness of nature allowing the victim to suffer much reduced pains of hunger while dying. During illness the suppression of the appetite frees the person to rest and recuperate, rather then be forced by hunger to gather and prepare food. Because ketogenic diets simulate this metabolic state seen with serious illness, I refer to them as “the make yourself sick diets.” As we will see below, another reason low-carbohydrate, high-protein diets deserve this title is they contain significant amounts of the very foods — the meats — that the American Cancer Society and the Heart Association tell us contribute to our most common causes of death and disability.

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/health-science/...

Re: Ways to start eating insects

#98

Post by nawitus »

cgh wrote: post #92
PerfectElement wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, vegans are not protein deficient and many people thrive on high carb diets (see blue zones, adventist health studies, etc.) Unfortunately we've all been bombarded with the protein myth (more protein == healthier) and even the smart people of HN can't seem to question this belief objectively.

Vegans may not be deficient but they certainly aren't anywhere close to optimal. That's why very few strength and power athletes are vegans or vegetarians. People who concern themselves with building lean muscle mass, like me, do not seriously entertain the thought of plant-based diets, let alone high-carb ones. All of the data says otherwise: if you want to build lean muscle, eat quality protein that the human body…

> ll of the data says otherwise: if you want to build lean muscle, eat quality protein that the human body will use most effectively. That means animals.

Which data, exactly? You can get sufficient amount of protein to build muscle on a vegan diet.

Re: Ways to start eating insects

#99

Post by nawitus »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #78
PerfectElement wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, vegans are not protein deficient and many people thrive on high carb diets (see blue zones, adventist health studies, etc.) Unfortunately we've all been bombarded with the protein myth (more protein == healthier) and even the smart people of HN can't seem to question this belief objectively.

It's still important to get complete protein in your diet (which isn't that hard, and there are some plant sources of complete protein, like quinoa). Not to mention that it appear that high-protein diets (especially from animal sources) lead to a variety of health risks[1]. 1: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413114...

You don't need to get a "complete protein" in every meal. If you're eating a varied diet, the "complete protein" requirement is trivially fulfilled.

Re: Ways to start eating insects

#100

Post by nawitus »

bad_user wrote: post #73
ch0wn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment you replied to talked about cheap and sustainable sources of protein. Meat is neither.

Why isn't meat a sustainable source of protein? And yes, I'm pretty much aware of current industrial farming processes and what that does to the environment, but maybe you're missing the forest from the trees, as in maybe it's industrial farming that we should get rid of. Plants and animals are basically engines storing and converting the sun's energy into nutrients and natural ecosystems are very much sustainable. A…

Animals are inefficient and unnecessary in food production. You're pretty much throwing energy out for no benefit.
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