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Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

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Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#91
post #60

I think this article reads a lot like "we need equal rights, so give us special treatment because we're different". All that lobbying for people who did not meet the technical criteria, that getting upset at the idea of someone not noticing his differentiating blackness. He might have a point in the part about how many minorities are using the service, but I don't see how the tech department should be concerned at al…

Tech builds the product that these people use. It makes sense for a representation of those users to be building the product.

It makes sense to have a representative oversee the guidelines for building the product, I don't see how it matters who actually gets to build it.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge upvote here. As much as we would like to forget about race in America, the fact is: Race Matters. The way people look at you, talk to you (or ignore you), talk about you, extend invites, etc..that ALL changes with your race.

Yes - I'm treated very differently from most of my coworkers on account of race. I could give lots of mildly interesting examples - it certainly means my dating life is very different. But how does it affect me on the job? I write quantitative software, and spend lots of time thinking about bayesian hierarchical models and multiple comparisons. You are suggesting I have some unique power. I'd really like to know how…

If you're in the (to me, enviable) position of never building a user-facing feature in a piece of software -- if you purely get to think algorithms all day, and you never draw on any knowledge or experience you've gained outside a classroom or a book -- then who knows. Maybe it doesn't matter what life experiences you've had. I personally have never had a job like that. My interests, personality, experience, and wisdom gained outside of work have always made a difference to what I do.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You honestly think it's "worth questioning how a black person would think differently"? Different experiences yield different points of view yield different ideas

Ok, so what's the black perspective on eliminating the fail whale? What's the black idea about how to filter my feed? Lets be concrete here, rather than appealing to vague platitudes.

ser2k's comment seems pretty concrete to me.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#94

Removing barriers to particular ethnicities in hiring? Great. Making it clear in marketing and outreach that all ethnicities are welcomed and encouraged? Great. Establishing a quota of X % of employees should be a certain race? Uh... okay. Should asians be turned down from a job because they've hit the asian quota and need more blacks? I didn't realize companies practiced affirmative action like this.

I'm Chinese, and I don't appreciate your attempt at pitting Asians against Blacks.

But seriously, in order to achieve proper racial quotas, we're gonna fire most of the asians. #getready

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#95
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so what's the black perspective on eliminating the fail whale? What's the black idea about how to filter my feed? Lets be concrete here, rather than appealing to vague platitudes.

What's the black perspective on how to better serve people who are in ferguson?

My belief is that there probably isn't one. I'm still waiting for someone to provide one.

As a Bayesian, I can certainly tell you how my perspective differs from folks like Leonid Pekelis or Evan Miller. As a person who leans towards parametric statistics and modelling, I can tell you how my perspective differs from the machine learning types.

Why is it so difficult to provide the (alleged) black perspective?

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#96
post #54

What is wrong with the statement "We won't lower the bar"? Some people criticize that that statement is racist, but they aren't thinking about the context. When people ask companies to do something about diversity, they're normally asking to carve out more quota for certain minority group, just like how universities carve out certain portion of their student quota for people who donate large amount of money to get in…

> What is wrong with the statement "We won't lower the bar"?

1. Assuming hiring a more diverse workforce would lower the bar.

The statement precludes that a more diverse workforce would implicitly lower the bar. This makes no sense. Increased diversity means increasing the many ways one can look at a problem, which improves problem solving and improves creativity. If the very first thing this guy thinks about is that hiring more women or black people would lower the bar, that's fucked up.

2. Assuming non-diverse workforce would not lower the bar.

If you hire shitty people, you lower the bar. There's plenty of white male tech workers who could lower the bar; keeping your workforce from being more diverse does not guarantee you won't hire a bar-lowering white male.

So at the very least it's inaccurate and misleading, and at the worst it is classist, racist, and sexist.

> Some people criticize that that statement is racist, but they aren't thinking about the context.

People who haven't had the advantages of white males have a harder time getting the same job, so an attempt is made to 'level the playing field' for someone who probably has exactly the same job competency but not the same socioeconomic advantages. That's the actual context.

> When people ask companies to do something about diversity, they're normally asking to carve out more quota for certain minority group, just like how universities carve out certain portion of their student quota for people who donate large amount of money to get in.

It is illegal in the United States for any employer, university, or other entity to have a quota for a certain race. Furthermore you're also assuming that donations preclude acceptance, which it doesn't inherently. The fact that the kid's parents could afford to pay for the best education up to that point gets them farther than the money alone.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#97
post #88

He is offended that he wasn't invited at various events involving African American leaders. I have black friends who would be offended if they were specifically invited to these events because they were African American. This sums up my issue with this piece: at best, not all his wishes are necessarily shared by other people of color; at worst, some of the things he wants could actually be construed as racist("Just b…

The complaint wasn't that black employees weren't individually invited, but that the resource group for black employees wasn't notified.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#98
post #54

What is wrong with the statement "We won't lower the bar"? Some people criticize that that statement is racist, but they aren't thinking about the context. When people ask companies to do something about diversity, they're normally asking to carve out more quota for certain minority group, just like how universities carve out certain portion of their student quota for people who donate large amount of money to get in…

The fact that the VP's first reaction to the author's question was to assume that hiring more diverse candidates somehow directly equates to lowering their hiring standards is what's wrong with the statement.

I can't see what one has to do with the other.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Chinese, and I don't appreciate your attempt at pitting Asians against Blacks.

I'm pretty sure it's a reductio ad absurdum argument.

It was... but check it: If you established targets based on population percentages (or user ethnicity percentages), and (AFAIK) Asians are typically over-represented by population in tech and blacks under-represented, does that mean if they have qualified Asian candidates they turn them down so it doesn't harm their target numbers? Or is that illegal so they focus on reducing Asians early in the pipeline?

I really don't understand how this racial hiring quota stuff works...

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#100
post #69
post #60

I think this article reads a lot like "we need equal rights, so give us special treatment because we're different". All that lobbying for people who did not meet the technical criteria, that getting upset at the idea of someone not noticing his differentiating blackness. He might have a point in the part about how many minorities are using the service, but I don't see how the tech department should be concerned at al…

The author mentioned unfair, non-technical criteria being applied to candidates, with the effect being that talented minority engineers were being filtered out of the hiring pipeline.

How is that a reason for lobbying that only minority candidates be treated fairly. Fix it for all, or don't expect my sympathy.
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