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On Quitting

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Re: On Quitting

#91

Post by Killswitch »

mhurron wrote: post #66
brianwawok wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you choose where you live. I do not live in SF, despite the nice weather, because I am not willing to spend a million bucks for a basic house.

> But you choose where you live Given that it takes money to move, no, you do not always have a choice in where to live.

Bullshit. Nobody forces you to live in an expensive city. Nobody makes you buy a million dollar house. You chose your own destiny. Stop putting the blame on others.

I lived in Chicago on a $800/mo salary for a year and a half. Yes eight hundred dollars a month, in the city of Chicago. I had no money, but I made it work, then I moved back home to small town Iowa and make a lot more now, and live a better life. Nobody made me do either of those things.

Re: On Quitting

#92

Post by gregd »

purplelobster wrote: post #84
gregd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your numbers mean literally nothing to me. What do your expenses cost per month? Children? Food? Housing? Student loans? Car payment? What is your income tax rate? Sales tax rate? Insurance? Phone? Internet?

Number are rough because of different currencies, but: Expenses: $1500 Children: none yet, but subsidized child care, paternity leave and other subsidies makes it pretty cheap Food: $500 Housing: $400 (own apartment with my SO) Student loans: $150 Car payment: no car, bike most places Income tax rate: 32%, but employer pays another 30%, so effectively 62% Sales tax: 25% Insurace: $15 Phone: $15 (cheapest possible pla…

My food budget is 3 times your food budget.

My housing is 3 times your housing budget.

My student loans are $200/month.

My car payment is 300/month.

Income tax rate 9%.

Sales tax: 0

Medical insurance: $8000/year

Auto (and other) insurance: 1200/year

Re: On Quitting

#93

Post by purplelobster »

purplelobster wrote: post #84
gregd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your numbers mean literally nothing to me. What do your expenses cost per month? Children? Food? Housing? Student loans? Car payment? What is your income tax rate? Sales tax rate? Insurance? Phone? Internet?

Number are rough because of different currencies, but: Expenses: $1500 Children: none yet, but subsidized child care, paternity leave and other subsidies makes it pretty cheap Food: $500 Housing: $400 (own apartment with my SO) Student loans: $150 Car payment: no car, bike most places Income tax rate: 32%, but employer pays another 30%, so effectively 62% Sales tax: 25% Insurace: $15 Phone: $15 (cheapest possible pla…

@gregd Well of course, that's the entire point! I didn't just happen to have low expenses, I've been actively lowering them as much as I can! And you have to make some sacrifices to reach a 60% savings rate, but you also realize how much of this middle-class lifestyle doesn't actually make you happier. Why do you spend $1500 on food every month for one person for example?! That's insane. My expense is too high for my taste even though I bring lunch to work and rarely eat out, but that's because groceries in this country are more as expensive than in the US. Eating out costs twice as much as the US. Also why is your housing 3 times mine? If you live with an SO for example you should be able to find something cheaper than $3000. Again, in SF that might be a sacrifice but you have to do something to get ahead.

I recommend reading this: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-...

Re: On Quitting

#94

Post by cgearhart »

brnlsl wrote: post #22
gregd wrote: post #4

I have never been in a position to just up and quit a job without having something else lined up. Are you all trust fund kids?

This kinda stuff just drives me nuts. No, they're not all trust fund kids. The OP quit her job at Dropbox(!), and it looks like her previous jobs were at Squarespace(!) and MailChimp(!). I can only assume that she is highly skilled and productive and has been well compensated for it for years. Perhaps she saved up? Some people have good jobs and save money. Is that hard to understand?

>Is that hard to understand?

Yes. And I don't mean that in a dismissive sense. I have a well-compensated job in a moderate cost of living area. I have tried hard to live thrifty and to save money, but my obligations always seem to scale with income. From shifts in tax burden after marriage & children (AMT anyone?), unexpected health expenses, to rate increases for daycare that scale with income, I have never received a raise that resulted in a net increase in my income. I have a positive net worth at this point (barely), but I still live paycheck-to-paycheck.

I marvel at and envy the kind of financial independence that would allow someone to quit a job on the spot. For as long as I've been an adult, I've had expenses (student loan payments, bills & utilities, housing, etc.) that far exceed my ability to pay without a regular stream of income. And my obligations have only increased over time as I built a family.

>Some people have good jobs and save money.

In my experience that isn't enough. You also need good luck to have good health - a few trips to the hospital can empty a savings account (at least in the US). You also need to live in an area where your skills are not just valuable, but where there is a competitive market for them. I have a number of fairly unique, highly-technical skills -- but they are only valuable to a few employers, and they are located in distinct, remote locations (so there is a high opportunity cost to move between them, and few openings). It also helps to have the good fortune of manageable expenses. In my experience, student loan debt is an anchor on young folks because it drains the very savings that would grant the financial freedom that would let them shop for the best job opportunities.

I don't begrudge anyone their success, but I often wonder how everyone else manages to get by at all, let alone so spectacularly as this.

Re: On Quitting

#95

Post by johnward »

caseysoftware wrote: post #83
johnward wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the suggestions and trust me I'm working on it. I wasn't trying to turn this into a thread about my money issues. It's just that HN tends to have a lot of very young and very very well paid people who tend to think everyone else is in that same situation. I'm not sure they realize how fortunate they really are.

Agreed but even many of them squander it all and live paycheck to paycheck. Unrelated: I know a bunch of the Watson team here in Austin. Good group, cool tech. :)

I'm working in San Antonio each week right now. Haven't made it to Austin yet.

Re: On Quitting

#96

Post by hunterloftis »

gregd wrote: post #42
timjahn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and me both. We must be doing something wrong. :)

Right? I keep reading these stories of people who up and just quit jobs at dream companies, which I can totally understand. But what I'm absolutely gobsmacked about is, "then I took 13 months off and roamed the country". Da fuq? I've been working since I was in 9th grade and have NEVER had enough money saved up to take 3 weeks off, much less 13 months.

> I've been working since I was in 9th grade and have NEVER had enough money saved up to take 3 weeks off, much less 13 months.

If you save 6% of your take-home income for one year, you'll have saved enough to take three weeks off. So if you take home, say, $500/week, put $30 each week into a savings account. You won't even notice that it's gone.

If you want to take 13 months off, the best strategy is to move from high ground to low ground. Eg, take a job in a city like SF, Denver, Seattle, NYC, etc that pays well, get a cheap place, get rid of any vehicles and use public trans, etc. Taking home $75k and socking away 1/3rd each week, you'll end up with $25k in savings - which is more than enough to spend 13 months roaming the country.

(In the past few years I've spent > 13 months roaming the country)

Re: On Quitting

#97

Post by sleepychu »

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #77
hoorayimhelping wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I save a good portion of every paycheck, and I've slowly watched my savings grow. There's no way I would quit a job without some kind of way to pay my day to day expenses or some kind of prospect to be able to do it in the future. The angles I look at this raise the same question: how can people do this? If people have no savings and no job lined up, how can they put food on the table? If they have savings, and know…

If I saved up to live for six months, there's nothing crazy about taking a three month break and using up about 50% of one's safety net.

Particularly if you're unhappy working where you are. I think using rainy-day money when it's sunny and you fancy sitting outside is a dangerous habit though.

Re: On Quitting

#98

Post by NumberCruncher »

Living where your family and friends live and being able to meet them in person on daily/weekly basis is of a high value. Unfortunately the most of us recognize this only after moving to a far away city or country. Leaving home and taking a job in the "most expensive city in the country ... 2,500 miles away from your family" is a lot like a job on an oil rig or as a mercenary. You need the right mindset and motivation. Wanting to "not to fuck up" or to "make mommy and daddy proud of you" or just to "work on a great product" might be fine but in a lot of cases it ends up in burn-out. If you are tough enough and want to make a kill (saving up the fuck-you-money within 5 years and doing after that whatever you want) than set your price and go for it. If you are not tough enough but you want to make a kill than find the best people of the industy, learn from them, set your price and go for it. Otherwise staying next to your family and friends might be the best option on the long run.

Re: On Quitting

#99

Post by sleepychu »

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #77
hoorayimhelping wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I save a good portion of every paycheck, and I've slowly watched my savings grow. There's no way I would quit a job without some kind of way to pay my day to day expenses or some kind of prospect to be able to do it in the future. The angles I look at this raise the same question: how can people do this? If people have no savings and no job lined up, how can they put food on the table? If they have savings, and know…

If I saved up to live for six months, there's nothing crazy about taking a three month break and using up about 50% of one's safety net.

Particularly if you're unhappy working where you are. I think using rainy-day money when it's sunny and you fancy sitting outside is a dangerous habit though.

Re: On Quitting

#100

Post by hunterloftis »

mathgeek wrote: post #9

As someone who knows they wouldn't want nor enjoy the SV lifestyle, I really feel for the author. Not everyone wants to live in that culture, and we need to remind ourselves that it's OK to want to life live differently from it.

Yep. I lived there for a year and just didn't dig San Francisco (blasphemy, I know!). Reading the author's experience returning home, how she felt awakened again, really resonated with me because I had the same experience.

After one such trip home to North Carolina, my girlfriend and I - sitting in the SFO terminal - started looking at NC houses, just to see. Three weeks later we closed on our home.

The valley culture isn't for everyone.

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