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“Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

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Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#91

Post by ErrantX »

jrockway wrote: post #65
noodle wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure, but it also cripples small businesses who don't really know any better. not every small-time merchant will have the wits about them to present legal threats.

Dunno, a legal threat is the first thing that came to my mind. I don't see a situation where someone collects money from your customers and refuses to give it to you any different from someone walking into your home, smashing your piggy bank, and taking your money. The second case is obviously a crime, so it follows that the first is too. When you are a victim of a crime, negotiating with the criminal seems like a ba…

> So if I lost my "appeal" at PayPal, I would involve the real legal system, instead of their made up one.

That's not really worth it though.

Im smart enough [sic] to write a letter that sounds sufficiently legal and blustery for them to take notice. But taking real action costs a bomb...

I felt a bit silly doing it but it was one of those "oh ffs" moments - I couldn't face another month of getting nowhere :) If they had called my bluff I would have backed down and tried another tack; but it occurred to me at the time that it might work, and was at least worth trying as a shortcut.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#92

Post by mattm »

chaosmachine wrote: post #10
dfischer wrote: post #7

What's an alternative to PayPal then?

Google Checkout, Amazon Payments, 2Checkout, Authorize.net, and other cc processors. Or get a merchant account.

I've never understood what's the difference between a credit card processor and a merchant account? I've read up on them but I'm new to this and still don't really see what I should be looking for.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#93

Post by Vivtek »

scotty79 wrote: post #8

I am really glad that I've read this. I plan to build a bit unorthodox website and I was intending to use PayPal for money transfers between the users. After reading this I am almost sure that my PayPal account would get suspended at any decent amount of popularity. Can you point out some other alternatives? I was thinking about money bookers.

With Moneybookers, you'll have the problem that they'll be flagged by US banks as a gambling site. Repeatedly. One of my customers in Europe uses Moneybookers to pay me, because their fees are really quite attractive in comparison to PayPal. But because Moneybookers are in the UK and we all know what a gambling haven the UK is, I have to keep a constant eye on my bank.

(But my bank bounces every other payment to joker.com for the same reason. Amateurs.)

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#94

Post by SteveC »

jasonlbaptiste wrote: post #48

I've dealt with this before, and it's absolutely ridiculous. Paypal should not be in business or allowed to operate. They go around acting as if they are "bank like", but in actual reality they do not have to adhere to bank standards. This means they can do things like this. I understand there are a lot of scammers and fraudsters out there. If they need to do something like this, they cannot make it a multiweek proce…

"developers love paypal"

Do they? Because I've never met one that does.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#95

Post by memetichazard »

Uchikoma wrote: post #41
josefresco wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard horror story after horror story and yet I've never had any issues with PayPal. I've stored money there, used their Visa/debit cart and even opted into their money market option and made some money (off my money) for several years. Factoring in anecdotal evidence like this (or mine) always has risks. I'm sure you could find someone local who absolutely hates the bank you choose to have accounts with, but th…

I've read horror story after horror story of houses burned down. I've been living in one for decades without any problems. Factoring in anecdotal evidence like this (or mine) always has risks.

I've heard those stories too. That's why we have fire alarms.

When does the plural of anecdote become data? At least, there will be a point where we've got enough data points to start taking precautions.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#96

Post by brandon272 »

While I find PayPal's rates reasonably attractive and their interface to be... uhh... better than most other merchant account or payment processing sites out there, I just don't think I can trust them to handle payment processing for me on a business scale.

I understand as much as the next guy that a company like PayPal needs to take fraud seriously. But why not work with your customers so that they can prove themselves to be legitimate businesses with legitimate intentions? I know I'd be more than happy to provide PayPal with whatever information they need in order to ensure uninterrupted service, and to prevent my account from being randomly "suspended" one day without notice or without reason.

They should get their act together and make quality customer care available for all of their Pro customers.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#97

Post by prawn »

jrockway wrote: post #65
noodle wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure, but it also cripples small businesses who don't really know any better. not every small-time merchant will have the wits about them to present legal threats.

Dunno, a legal threat is the first thing that came to my mind. I don't see a situation where someone collects money from your customers and refuses to give it to you any different from someone walking into your home, smashing your piggy bank, and taking your money. The second case is obviously a crime, so it follows that the first is too. When you are a victim of a crime, negotiating with the criminal seems like a ba…

What about a basic specialist company that represented people in these situations for a fee or percentage of the money being withheld? "Lawyer" sounds expensive and scary to many people, but if the pitch was very specific, people might go for it?

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#98

Post by jamroom »

dangrossman wrote: post #89
nfnaaron wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I use both PayPal and Fastspring as our payment processors (Fastspring is there to give customers an option besides paypal)." I wonder if this is something of a best practice, to have two payment processors running live. Besides giving customers a choice, you also have the other one already up, running and accepting money if paypal or whoever freezes you.

It absolutely is. Not only can you lose your access to a payment method at any time (even a merchant account), but the service/API might be offline. Authorizenet suffered a big outage not too many months ago. The smart companies had other payment options available and simply took away the Authnet powered method until the service was restored, the companies that didn't plan so well were essentially not doing business.

Yes - this is one reason why we do this - it's basically a "backup" plan for our merchant processing. Either of the options can be turned off in a template in just a few seconds if needed. We also do it however since some users are vehemently "anti PayPal" and won't buy anything through PayPal - we don't want to lose those customers, so an alternate option is essential.

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#99

Post by scotty79 »

Vivtek wrote: post #93
scotty79 wrote: post #8

I am really glad that I've read this. I plan to build a bit unorthodox website and I was intending to use PayPal for money transfers between the users. After reading this I am almost sure that my PayPal account would get suspended at any decent amount of popularity. Can you point out some other alternatives? I was thinking about money bookers.

With Moneybookers, you'll have the problem that they'll be flagged by US banks as a gambling site. Repeatedly. One of my customers in Europe uses Moneybookers to pay me, because their fees are really quite attractive in comparison to PayPal. But because Moneybookers are in the UK and we all know what a gambling haven the UK is, I have to keep a constant eye on my bank. (But my bank bounces every other payment to joke…

Does your bank reject payments to your account done with moneybookers and you have to explicitly remind your bank that you want those payments and then everything is ok?

Re: “Is PayPal good for your microISV business?” A short PayPal horror story

#100

Post by Vivtek »

scotty79 wrote: post #99
Vivtek wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Moneybookers, you'll have the problem that they'll be flagged by US banks as a gambling site. Repeatedly. One of my customers in Europe uses Moneybookers to pay me, because their fees are really quite attractive in comparison to PayPal. But because Moneybookers are in the UK and we all know what a gambling haven the UK is, I have to keep a constant eye on my bank. (But my bank bounces every other payment to joke…

Does your bank reject payments to your account done with moneybookers and you have to explicitly remind your bank that you want those payments and then everything is ok?

Occasionally. I have to admit it hasn't happened in a while, but I don't use moneybookers that often.
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