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Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

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Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#91

Post by CrankyFool »

mattbee wrote: post #39

"We want employees to have the flexibility and confidence to balance the needs of their growing families without worrying about work or finances ... Each employee ... works with their managers for coverage during their absences." So, the conversation could be just "Hey manager as per the new policy, I would like to be a full-time mum / dad for the next 12 months; will you arrange cover for me?" Is that right, no ques…

I'm a hiring manager at Netflix. If one of my employees told me "I'm going to take the year off, see you in a year," I'd basically go "OK, have a great time with your kids. Send us a picture every once in a while."

And then I'd backfill them. And when they got back, I'd have an extra engineer. Chances are by that point I'll be looking to expand the team anyway.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#92

Post by shostack »

dglass wrote: post #53

I don't get all the backlash in these comments around the "unlimited" policies. Do any of the people opposing the unlimited policies have them in place at their own company? I've had unlimited vacation at my last two companies. I've seen it abused as my previous employer but it's worked out great at my current job. I'm not "peer pressured" by my other coworkers like everyone here seems to think I would be. As long as…

I currently have unlimited PTO and the experience is great, and have family working somewhere that their boss pressures them to not take it.

My $.02 is that it is totally dependent on company culture as a whole. In my case, the company treats employees like responsible adults and pays them to get a job done, not fill a seat. It is an incredibly family-friendly company overall, and they really get the notion that "life happens" and that "family comes first."

As a result, I take time off when I need it, or work from home, or take a half day, or whatever. As such, I've found that I'm overall more productive, and when I'm just not feeling productive, I don't try to force myself to do work. I haven't had pressure, but that's also because I'm responsible with coverage, and effective in the outcomes of what I do.

I wouldn't be surprised if it came up as a discussion point if I was letting things fall through the cracks left and right. And that is the trade-off to this kind of policy. Basically, when there is a minimum, people take the days (especially if they don't roll-over). That is a healthy forcing mechanism. If things aren't going well, and you don't take the days, or are a workaholic (guilty), you might end up taking net fewer days.

By contrast, the relative I referenced has a manager that holds a double standard. It is fine if the manager takes whatever time they want, but if my relative wants to take time off, they get push back, despite being exceptionally good at their job and getting shit done.

That's broken IMHO, and speaks to larger cultural issues I've heard about that company.

Bottom line, I think these policies can work, but they are intrinsically tied to how a company treats their employees in general, and it can also be specific down to individual team culture.

I know a case of a manager who came into a situation like this from a much more "traditional" big company, and had trouble adjusting to their team working from home or taking frequent days off on short notice. It was alien to them. For the most part they let it slide, but they definitely pushed back some times which didn't go over well with the employees who expected the culture to be upheld.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#93

Post by christianmann »

michaelchisari wrote: post #48
rezistik wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think unlimited with a minimum is really the solution. Without a minimum people are reluctant to take time off from what I've seen and read.

I've seen places that have that minimum be mandatory. As in, if you haven't taken a vacation by a certain time, they will insist, even go so far as restricting access until the vacation is over. The great thing about a mandatory minimum (never thought I'd be saying those words), is that it doesn't allow someone to over work themselves into a frenzy, making everyone else look lazy, while simultaneously burning themsel…

It also tests your office's bus factor.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#94

Post by foldor »

someear wrote: post #40
izend wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically what Canadians and Europeans get?

It's paid by the government over there, not the company. Not sure about different places in Europe, but it's also not paid at 100% (at least in Canada)

As far as I'm aware in Canada you get 60% of your pay for a full year while on maternity leave. Many companies contribute the other 40% for at least 6 months of that time.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#95

Post by CrankyFool »

cldellow wrote: post #12

Doesn't Netflix already offer unlimited vacation? Parental leave isn't vacation, of course, but the cynic in me thinks this is another example of a case where a corporation can benevolently offer the moon while replying on peer pressure to ensure that no employee accepts what is on offer to anywhere near its fullest extent. Does Netflix publish any stats about vacation usage?

(I manage at Netflix)

We can't publish stats about vacation usage.

That's because I don't know of a single manager here who tracks vacation usage. There's a general allergy to doing that, because that can lead to trying to manage that number and then the 'unmetered vacation' is no longer so unmetered.

I suppose I could, for my people, try to find all the out of office notifications, but that'd be a silly level of effort.

(There's no consistent process across the board for dealing with vacations, but to the best of my knowledge the typical way this works -- and the way it works in my own group -- is that an engineer will at some point probably mention to me that they're taking days off casually. I try to make sure it's clear to them that they're not asking for permission, and then move on).

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#96

Post by CrankyFool »

giaour wrote: post #18
cldellow wrote: post #12

Doesn't Netflix already offer unlimited vacation? Parental leave isn't vacation, of course, but the cynic in me thinks this is another example of a case where a corporation can benevolently offer the moon while replying on peer pressure to ensure that no employee accepts what is on offer to anywhere near its fullest extent. Does Netflix publish any stats about vacation usage?

Isn't part of their unlimited vacation perk a promise not to track how much vacation you use?

It's not explicit, but as I noted above that generally ends up being the case. Most other managers here with whom I've talked consider tracking vacation usage ... suspect and worrisome. It feels icky, so we don't do it.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#97

Post by CrankyFool »

lowglow wrote: post #51

This is what I think of Unlimited vacation or otherwise: There should first be a mandatory vacation time, then an unlimited option beyond this mandatory time. Plain and simple.

I would find a mandatory vacation to be intrusively big-brotherish and -- while I can't guarantee I wouldn't work at a place that required it -- it'd be an overall negative in my retention. I'm a fully-formed adult. How about letting me manage my time off?

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#98

Post by eitally »

Cadsby wrote: post #79
ars wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So no taking 30 years off after your child is born then. That's simple - just keep having children. Time it right and you can take off permanently for decades.

And yet virtually no ones does this.

After the first one or two most people start to fully understands the downsides of such a proposition.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#99

Post by shostack »

aianus wrote: post #83

I don't see why it's your employer's job to subsidize the birth of your children with paid maternity/paternity leave. Why not just pay everyone more and those who want children can use the extra to save up to take a year off work?

Because in a down economy where jobs are hard to come by and corporations take advantage of employees any which way they can, this results in people being forced to choose between having a kid or keeping their job.

Some see that as a form of slavery or extreme control, and they want the government to step in to prevent that.

Further, if companies didn't have to pay for that, that disproportionately means that lower-income workers may not be able to have kids while higher earners can because they can afford day care, only having one working parent, etc. That goes down a whole discrimination rabbit hole.

That said, while I am on the side of enforced maternity/paternity minimums, I respect that it is a complicated issue. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if this impacts the hiring of young women by startups. It wouldn't be entirely illogical to assume that a young woman has a higher likelihood of taking extended time off due to maternity leave. For an early-stage startup, that can be their death if a key employee leaves for several months.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#100

Post by aianus »

ambicapter wrote: post #88
aianus wrote: post #83

I don't see why it's your employer's job to subsidize the birth of your children with paid maternity/paternity leave. Why not just pay everyone more and those who want children can use the extra to save up to take a year off work?

Because they recognize that finding a job while having to take care of a 1 year old is a bit stressful, I think.

They could offer a year's unpaid sabbatical to their employees, parents or not.
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