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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#891

Post by imanaccount247 »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #688
imanaccount247 wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is completely unfounded. You do not need to know anything about category theory, or even what it is. All you need to know about Monad is its interface. If you can handle java, you can handle haskell. All you need to understand with kinds is "its how many arguments a type takes". And that isn't category theory in the first place. Anyone can define an ADT. That's one of the first things I taught our PHP team, n…

As a PL enthusiast that likes to dabble in different paradigms and basically learns a programming language or two every other year by far the hardest language to wrap my head around has been Haskell. There are a few reasons for this that get dismissed by the day to day practitioners. First, there is the cognitive rewiring required to think of everything as an inert expression. In Haskell there are no actions, just de…

>There are a few reasons for this that get dismissed by the day to day practitioners.

Perhaps they get dismissed because we all went through the process of learning haskell in order to become day to day practitioners, so we know these reasons are made up nonsense.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#892

Post by StavrosK »

codeulike wrote: post #890
StavrosK wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a code smell that usually means there's something there to be abstracted, or that your API isn't as clean as it could be.

I'd take a bit of copy-paste over premature generalisation any day.

I'd take a premature generalisation over a false dichotomy.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#893

Post by vorg »

bad_user wrote: post #822
Fede_V wrote: post #793

I know this won't convince many hardcore Unix people who are used to the command line, but Visual Studio is still an absolutely incredible piece of software, and I really, really wish I could run it under Linux. Even if you are a command line ninja, amazing autocompletion, magical debugging with inspection are pretty wonderful.

IntelliJ IDEA runs everywhere and is a lot smarter than Visual Studio out of the box. The community edition is not only free of charge, but open-source as well. Visual Studio needs the Resharper plugin by IntelliJ, to be able to call it a modern IDE. It also has really good plugins for many languages, besides Java, like Scala, Python, Ruby, Javascript, PHP, Clojure and Groovy. My colleagues that are doing Ruby develo…

> Visual Studio needs the Resharper plugin by IntelliJ, to be able to call it a modern IDE

You didn't say what Resharper does, and why other IDE's need it to be called modern. Is this an advert for Resharper?

> like Scala, Python, Ruby, Javascript, PHP, Clojure and Groovy

You listed one middling language among 6 top languages. Is this another advert, trying to promote a language by associating it with the oft used ones?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#894

Post by yohanatan »

lmm wrote: post #810
yohanatan wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> F# has a number of these specific implementations but they're kind of "hard-coded" in the language rather than fully extensible. That's not true. You can extend the language yourself with "computation expressions" (and that's in fact how the 'async', 'let!' et al keywords are implemented).

True, but what you can't do is abstract over them; you can't write a function that operates on "some generic computation expression" (you can't even write that type). So you can't write "sequence" or "traverseM" or more complicated/specific things you build on top of these.

There is an encoding supporting that level of abstraction (perhaps though not as straightforward as you'd prefer); namely using interfaces (which are first-class) to encode module signatures. See: https://gist.github.com/t0yv0/192353

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#895

Post by dingdingdang »

illumen wrote: post #791
mcv wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my impression too. I'm not terribly familiar with C#, and used to avoid anything from Microsoft like the plague, but a lot of stuff I hear about C# sounds like it's a bit ahead of Java. (Really, Java should be more like Groovy, if you ask me.) But the JVM platform is great, and I'm just not going to get locked into a MS ecosystem. But if MS opens up to the rest of the world, well, that changes things consider…

You prefer yourself an Oracle cage?

Exactly.. IMHO both Oracle & MS runtimes are dubious mechanisms, especially in the light of the native cross-compiling that Go and co. are gradually bringing to the fore.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#897

Post by simplemath »

tracker1 wrote: post #782
simplemath wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your analysis is absolutely solid, but I'm not sure anyone read this and thought "Oh gee how nice of M$ to give back". In the end I think this is overwhelmingly a net positive for both MSFT and developers.

You know, if MS had done this even a year ago, the project I'm working on would have the server-side in .Net instead of node. I'm replacing a very old .Net project having built up too much code debt to be maintained with a green field project using flux/react server and client. I really like ASP.Net MVC since v3 it's been a pleasure to work with and the first release of anything ASP that actually mirrored how I used…

Well there was that big tada about MS/Docker, now this...

A lot of good things happening in Redmond right now.

Now if they can somehow fix this upcoming Lync is now Skype Business business, I'll be really impressed.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#898

Post by frowaway001 »

vorg wrote: post #893
bad_user wrote: post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IntelliJ IDEA runs everywhere and is a lot smarter than Visual Studio out of the box. The community edition is not only free of charge, but open-source as well. Visual Studio needs the Resharper plugin by IntelliJ, to be able to call it a modern IDE. It also has really good plugins for many languages, besides Java, like Scala, Python, Ruby, Javascript, PHP, Clojure and Groovy. My colleagues that are doing Ruby develo…

> Visual Studio needs the Resharper plugin by IntelliJ, to be able to call it a modern IDE You didn't say what Resharper does, and why other IDE's need it to be called modern . Is this an advert for Resharper? > like Scala, Python, Ruby, Javascript, PHP, Clojure and Groovy You listed one middling language among 6 top languages. Is this another advert, trying to promote a language by associating it with the oft used o…

> You didn't say what Resharper does, and why other IDE's need it to be called modern. Is this an advert for Resharper?

It's clear what he meant for everyone who hasn't been living under the rock for the last 10 years. Don't blame him if you are clueless.

> You listed one middling language among 6 top languages. Is this another advert, trying to promote a language by associating it with the oft used ones?

Heh? It's a list of some languages supported by that IDE.

Did you have a bad day, or are you just confused?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#899

Post by fapjacks »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #813
fapjacks wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. There is zero regard for open source from Microsoft here. At the very least they must be trying to return to the "developers, developers, developers" days. With Bill Gates punching the clock, it's really anybody's guess what the real motivation is here, but it sure as hell isn't all the things we know and love about open source.

> Absolutely. There is zero regard for open source from Microsoft here. What would it take for you to say "gosh, now Microsoft has regard for open source!" ? If the answer is "nothing, I'd never say that ever" then you don't have an opinion, you have a fixed religious belief. And how does your threshold for Microsoft differ from the same for Apple. Google, Facebook et al?

When its history shows otherwise.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#900

Post by fapjacks »

elliotec wrote: post #699

Finally. Do you think this will significantly hurt the virtual machine industry?

My instinct is that people at MS are freaking out right now about Docker specifically. It's hard to say which decisions were "coaxed" into place with Bill Gates advising the new CEO, and which are attempts to strategically react to the negative mindshare of Azure against everything going Docker. First we have the "news" that MS is doing some mystery thing with Docker (which really must be a matter of semantics, because for an OS which didn't have symbolic links until 2008, I can't imagine it's possible to bring something like LXC to the Windows kernel), and now this news about Microsoft "open sourcing" a portion of their development tools, from the same company paying TV shows to awkwardly use the phrase "Bing it". If anything, it's just an interesting time to be alive.
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