Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#891

Post by joelrunyon » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 5:23 AM UTC

dnr wrote: post #736

victorhooi wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, actually, he comes across as the bigger person. He made a very public post saying, I'm happy to discuss my views - reach out to me and I'm happy to do it in private. The alternate would have either been a public spectacle, or farce - sorry, but the real world isn't quite like 4chan, and adults are able to sort things out without resorting to baying mobs.

He didn't say that at all. He said: "If we are acquainted, have good-faith assumptions, and circumstances allow it, we can discuss 1:1 in person. Online communication doesn’t seem to work very well for potentially divisive issues. Getting to know each other works better in my experience." I think it's clear that the vast majority of people that would like to discuss his views with him couldn't actually take him up on…

That actually sounds like the most reasonable thing I've heard out of this entire fiasco.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#892

Post by camus2 » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 5:23 AM UTC

vacri wrote: post #733

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

Apparently many Mozilla supporters... bully I would wager that plenty of those opposing Eich don't actually use Mozilla products. Chrome is the most popular browser, not Firefox, and their other products aren't monopolies either. Of the several screeds I read against Eich, not one of them said "We currently use a Mozilla product and now no longer will".

I would wager that plenty of those opposing Eich don't actually use Mozilla products.

but their relatives might use Firefox, and these relatives might listen those who oppose Eich because they are family...that's called social effect.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#893

Post by exodust » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 5:28 AM UTC

beedogs wrote: post #862

cookiecaper wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that support for Prop 8 has been misrepresented as "hate" of gays, and that gullible young people have been tricked to support the gay agenda in the first place, and also to believe anyone who disagrees with that agenda is a "reprehensible bigot". If "gay rights" are really so self-evident, let's confront the haters and explain in a clear, concise manner why their beliefs are invalid. The thing is that…

What's ridiculous about it? People who would deny homosexuals the right to marry are reprehensible. It's not too hard to understand.

See, there's your problem. Labeling people "reprehensible" who don't agree with you about the limitations of what defines "marriage", but who otherwise might completely support the legal rights of same-sex couples in regards to health benefits and so on.

The bullying tactics and manipulation of the argument by pro-gay marriage activists is what's reprehensible. Including forcing CEOs to resign, attacking web browsers, and generally accusing people who believe in a traditonal definition of marriage as "anti-gay", which in most cases they are not.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#894

Post by homulilly » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 5:45 AM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

You can't really compare large scale oppression to individual inconvenience. Besides, being denied equal rights and being denied the opportunity to be CEO of Mozilla are obviously not even remotely comparable.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#895

Post by eropple » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 5:49 AM UTC

vacri wrote: post #880

joe_the_user wrote: post #849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bible also says "Turn the other cheek", meaning that you should give people a second chance, and to treat them kindly despite their actions. Yes, people have asked him nicely and politely to resign rather than threatening or berating him. I think it's sort of telling the way ideas like "freedom of speech" or "turn the other cheek" get abused in this particular instance. "Freedom of speech" says the state won't ab…

I don't agree with his (apparent) personal views. But he has made an expression of sorrow for hurt (it's still an apology, though it might not be as strong as you want), and he has clearly stated that the position of Mozilla won't change. Folks like wpietri ignore these things and keep on stating that one event of six years ago is all we need to know of the man. I think Eich's (apparent) position is wrong, but I also…

> keep on stating that one event of six years ago is all we need to know of the man

- He donated to Prop 8.

- He donated to Pat Buchanan, who has largely made his bones on hating anybody who isn't WASPy[1].

- He donated $750 to Thomas McClintock[2], another politician who makes a show of being anti-gay. Eich was living in Santa Clara--not in McClintock's district.

- He donated $500 to Linda Smith[2], she of the "morally unfit inclination" opinion of gay people. She was running in Washington, while he lived in California.

The reason I list these is to dispel the notion that it's "one event". He has a pattern of going out of his way (out-of-district donations) to give money to causes and politicians who are particularly strident in their anti-gay stances (and even Ron Paul, who he also gave money to, is notably anti-gay-marriage and remains static in that despite having vacillated on marriage privatization).

This is, by my lights, who he wants to be known to be. Should that not be considered in the light of Mozilla's self-described values? (I do not believe there exists a coherent, moral worldview where it's not important to prioritize the inclusion of the less privileged ahead of the comfort of the privileged. I say this while thinking of multiple communities of which I am a part that sometimes make me uncomfortable in the effort to make those less privileged feel respected and safe. The actions that result in this piss me off sometimes, but I am an adult and I recognize that it's for the net benefit of everybody.)

[1] - http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/02/controvers...

[2] - OpenSecrets donor query - it requires a captcha, though, so I've omitted the link.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#896

Post by exodust » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 5:52 AM UTC

chrismonsanto wrote: post #616

peterashford wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for saying so. I find the moral compass of a lot of HN posters rather baffling sometimes. Nice to know I'm not the only one :o)

> I find the moral compass of a lot of HN posters rather baffling sometimes. From what I can tell, pretty much everyone in this topic thinks that opposing gay marriage is immoral and donating money to Prop 8 is a bad thing. The divide is on whether it is OK to oust someone for their beliefs, given a lot of extenuating circumstances. And on HN, there are a large number of people who think yes, and a large number of pe…

Umm.. sorry, but not everyone thinks opposing gay marriage is immoral. That's just you hoping that everyone agrees with your point of view. Which they don't.

Morality has nothing to do with defining the limitations of artificial mad-made things such as "marriage".

It's like denying the gay community their annual mardi gras because the streets are trashed with broken bottles and nothing really good comes out of it except gay people have a big party. Cancelling the party would surely bring much "gay hatred" accusations. So the party continues, every year. And every year the same thing happens - streets trashed and gay party people pop pills all night long.

Imagine if there was an annual heterosexual party, celebrating heterosexuality? Imagine the outcry and hatred directed at such a thing?

I have nothing against gay people, but personally find the whole gay activist vibe on the marriage issue really pathetic and manipulative. Fair enough fight for equal laws regarding health and so on, but marriage is what it is. You need to respect people who want to keep marriage as something for a man+woman.

If I don't agree with gay marriage, I DO NOT deserve your hatred and ridicule,

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#897

Post by etfb » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 5:54 AM UTC

wyclif wrote: post #188

sethbannon wrote: post #57

Comments here are pretty supportive of Brendan but I see this as nothing but a victory for Mozilla and a victory for consumer activism. It should be clear by now that you cannot run a large company in the public eye while you espouse vitriolic and discriminatory views that belong in the last century.

Except that he didn't "espouse vitriolic and discrimatory views." A majority of voters in CA pulled the lever for Prop 8. 70% of African-American voters in CA voted "yes" for Prop 8. Doesn't sound discriminatory to me. What it sounds like is political correctness run amok, and punishment for thought crime.

Every complaint about "political correctness gone mad" (that's the Daily Mail catchphrase you're paraphrasing here) really boils down to this:

I enjoy acting like a prick. Somebody with more power than me is forcing me to stop acting like a prick. I don't like it.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#898

Post by nashequilibrium » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 5:56 AM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

Political views are about allocating scarce resources when confronted with unlimited wants and needs. The act of paying to deny a group of people basic rights that all other groups enjoy is an act of discrimination. Now, a company is a corporate entity that has a brand identity, which it continuously communicates to its audience and the message that Mozilla's sends out is in total contradiction to Brendan Eich's actions.

When the message the Ceo sends out grabs more attention and is detrimental to the corporate identity of a company, then it is time to part ways, as this will manifest into a huge consumer base loss. Why? Because consumers align themselves even stronger with corporations that push charity, tolerance and freedom as their main identity like Tom's shoes. The biggest sin a company can do in a highly competitive market is to alienate their most vocal consumer base, where they no longer see their principles reflected in the company's identity. Mozilla is now bigger than Brendan Eich.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#899

Post by mercurial » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 5:56 AM UTC

dopamean wrote: post #131

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

Look at it this way. If at the time of the invasion of Iraq, people suddenly noticed Eich had donated to an anti-war cause, or maybe mentioned in private that he thought 9/11 was a consequence of US foreign policy, how many red-blooded, freedom-fries eating Americans would have asked for his head because he held an unpopular opinion?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#900

Post by smsm42 » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 5:59 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #816

andrewpi wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Barack Obama, the President of the US, was against gay marriage in 2008; I'm confused as to why he gets a pass here, but the head of Mozilla doesn't?

> So Barack Obama, the President of the US, was against gay marriage in 2008; I'm confused as to why he gets a pass here (1) Barack Obama didn't contribute money to Prop. 8, and in fact specifically spoke out against it and similar measures in 2008, e.g., "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage. But when you start playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody…

Barack Obama was appointed the President of the United States, which is a bit higher position that CEO of Mozilla, with all due respect to Firefox and all. Still nobody of the people who waged war on Eich did not say anything remotely like that about Obama the whole time while he was publicly opposing it. And if you think that President's position is worth less than $1000 in cash, you don't really understand what President in the US means. The whole point is that Obama was "our guy" and Eich was not. That's why Obama got the pass and was patiently allowed to "evolve", but Eich got the "enemy of the nation" treatment.