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Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

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Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#891
post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN crowd is not representative of the entire market. Most people don't care about the operating system and only want something that 1) is simple to use 2) they already know 3) they happen to already have (most people keep their phones for many years) Also, the largest phone market in the world is the developing countries market. Cheap phones are supreme right now

That's not what I observe. Many non technical people have ethical concerns. This fantasy among the technical crowd here that the general public only cares about cheap and convenient, which is at best condescending, needs to die. Convincing oneself of this only takes meeting non technical people.

> Many non technical people have ethical concerns.

100% correct.

I have many non-technical friends who want to De-Google but lack the knowledge and/or find the switch intimidating.

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

It's an outright fabrication with no basis. All you've done is posted a video filled with doctored content and fabricated claims from a serial harasser. Henry Fisher (Techlore) has been orchestrating harassment towards me for years. Basic research and critical thinking is all that's needed to debunk the content. The video shows someone engaging in blatant bullying through directing hate towards someone with lies while taking great pleasure in it.

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's a little ironic Daniel rails on and on about how he's being targeted in a mass-harassment conspiracy against him and the project (usually by "the CalyxOS community", or his old CopperheadOS business partner guy), then.... freely levies a group of his own to mass-flag/downvote critics with the intent to silence them? "Every accusation is a confession" or something, I guess.

The ongoing lies, bullying and harassment towards me is very real and you're directly participating in it. The reality which can be found through looking through actual content which hasn't been doctored is that joemazerino has engaged in years of lies and bullying towards me on Hacker News without moderators stepping up to end it. Ending this bullying showing up in every thread about GrapheneOS from the same small group of perpetrators is long overdue.

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#894
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The directors of the the GrapheneOS Foundation and the other things you're talking about are public information. I stepped down as lead developer due to relentless harassment preventing me from being productive. The same people targeting me with harassment misrepresented what was happening. You shouldn't get info about GrapheneOS from Hacker News comments especially when multiple regulars here are part of the attacks…

I'm aware of what happened, and I'm getting GOS news directly, not from HN. However, you're still the biggest contributor of code to GOS (judging by commit history). That's what I meant.

I'm not anywhere close to the biggest contributor of code to GrapheneOS. Do you think the account listed as the committer is the one writing it? That's not the author of the code, it's the account used to approve it.

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#895

One thing that bothers me is the seeming lack of transparency about who is running GrapheneOS. Daniel Micay supposedly stepped down, so who is calling the shots now? Who runs the CI? Who owns the update servers and signing keys? Who am I trusting?

Without criticizing or implying any conspiracy theories, I did find it odd where the news release quoted "a spokesperson at GrapheneOS" without attributing it. We badly need alternative(s) like GrapheneOS, and I want to see it succeed. I hope as the project matures, the sense of professionalism and stability it projects will strengthen. For what it's worth, I personally feel the business partnership is a step toward…

The statement was put together collaboratively by our COO, community manager and moderation team which is the case with a lot of our written responses to journalists and others. People with their real name tied to GrapheneOS are targeted with conspiracy theorizing and harassment. You can see it throughout this Hacker News thread. People personally target myself and other members of the team in very vile ways.

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#896
post #554
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The directors of the the GrapheneOS Foundation and the other things you're talking about are public information. I stepped down as lead developer due to relentless harassment preventing me from being productive. The same people targeting me with harassment misrepresented what was happening. You shouldn't get info about GrapheneOS from Hacker News comments especially when multiple regulars here are part of the attacks…

Thank you, to you and the rest of the team, for your work on GrapheneOS! If I may make a suggestion: as GrapheneOS becomes more popular, perhaps it's time to better establish users' trust in the control over it. When the project was primarily you, who was already known for technical prowess and a principled exit from a different project, that was enough for many enthusiasts. But as both the team and the user base hav…

> When the project was primarily you, who was already known for technical prowess and a principled exit from a different project, that was enough for many enthusiasts.

There was no principled exit from a project but rather from a company. GrapheneOS started in 2014 and was previously called CopperheadOS. We still use multiple of the 2015 era GitHub repositories.

A company which I co-founded in 2015 where I still own 50% of the voting shares was taken over and many illegal actions were taken in an attempt to take over my open source project and then spent years trying to destroy it when that failed. The company was then used as a weapon to wage a war against myself and GrapheneOS for years. A large of donations were stolen and repurposed for attacks on the project people made those donations to. Meanwhile, the company entirely depended on repeatedly forking GrapheneOS to sell it as a project. We stopped them from doing it through legal action and it's essentially over. It took a very long time to rebuild GrapheneOS and the attacks they started never stopped.

I continued working on the same project after the failed takeover attempt and it turned into a much bigger project where I'm no longer anywhere close to the most active developer. I mostly do organization tasks including giving developers tasks and system administration, not development. It's quite hard to do development when you're harassed throughout the day, every day, to an extreme level. It took away my ability to do the kind of creative work involved in development for the most part. I leave that up to others now. I don't even do much code review anymore but rather delegated that to others too. I don't know why people continue claiming otherwise when it's plainly not the case.

> I'm not sure how to do that, but it may include communicating who is involved (not just names, but why they should be trusted), and what safeguards there are against mistakes and compromised/rogue individuals.

We have to protect our team from relentless harassment including swatting attacks. Our moderators aren't allowed to use accounts tied to their real name since otherwise they'd be heavily targeted. The same applies to our community manager. We generally recommend developers avoid using their real name unless they're able to tolerate being tolerated. We avoid having people's names tied to things when we can. It was a mistake to do it in the beginning and can't be undone for myself but others can avoid being targeted. I don't think many people would be willing to work as a community manager or any other public-facing role in GrapheneOS if they had to use their real name. That's especially true if they're part of around half of the people who are women or many other groups who would be targeted specifically for their identity alone.

> I say this because GrapheneOS may be the best candidate for a trustworthy smartphone platform right now, and I hope for the best followthrough and success of that.

Continued success unfortunately enrages people who have been trying to harm us for years as can be seen throughout this thread. It's not getting better and I don't think many people want to be exposed to it.

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#897
post #442
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The directors of the the GrapheneOS Foundation and the other things you're talking about are public information. I stepped down as lead developer due to relentless harassment preventing me from being productive. The same people targeting me with harassment misrepresented what was happening. You shouldn't get info about GrapheneOS from Hacker News comments especially when multiple regulars here are part of the attacks…

That is a pretty poor and disappointing reply to be honest. They asked a reasonable question and you barely even responded to anything they asked. The community deserves a response to the question. What with this new chapter, it might be better for someone else to handle PR and comms for the project (Signed, passionate GrapheneOS user of a few years)

[deleted]

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#898
post #442
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The directors of the the GrapheneOS Foundation and the other things you're talking about are public information. I stepped down as lead developer due to relentless harassment preventing me from being productive. The same people targeting me with harassment misrepresented what was happening. You shouldn't get info about GrapheneOS from Hacker News comments especially when multiple regulars here are part of the attacks…

That is a pretty poor and disappointing reply to be honest. They asked a reasonable question and you barely even responded to anything they asked. The community deserves a response to the question. What with this new chapter, it might be better for someone else to handle PR and comms for the project (Signed, passionate GrapheneOS user of a few years)

> The community deserves a response to the question.

You use GrapheneOS which we provide to you free of any cost but yet you're being nasty towards us throughout this thread. Why do you think you deserve anything from us?

Why should we participate on this platform at all when we have name calling, bullying and links to harassment content directed towards us with nothing being done about it?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47219293

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#899
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have an overly reactive social media presence, somewhat similar to what ffmpeg has. Could end up being bad PR for Motorola. Funnily enough that same social media person has some odd ideas about trust and PKIs.

> some odd ideas about trust and PKIs. Can you explain what you mean?

Our project account posted a thread about our recent migration of our mail server to using our ASN and IP space. They replied to the thread by attacking Postfix, DNSSEC and DANE. They promoted the insecure MTA-STS approach promoted by Google despite them not fully adopting it for Gmail similarly to how they don't even use an enforcing DMARC policy despite punishing others for not doing it. We explained Domain Validation depends on DNS security. We also explained MTS-STS isn't the same as browser WebPKI due to an insecure bootstrapping and refreshing system along with lack of mandatory Certificate Transparency. We talked about Google's anti-competitive practices when it comes to email. Here's the thread, read it for yourself:

https://x.com/Avamander/status/2025719336552284161

The fact is that if you use the org TLD then you trust whoever runs it to issue certificates for your website and the same for your domain registrar. There's no point in pretending otherwise. It's very clearly how the system works. WebPKI does not truly add value over a TLSA record and DNSSEC beyond Certificate Transparency which is reactive and is NOT part of MTA-STS. MTA-STS also doesn't have mandatory encryption but rather opportunistic and can be stopped from using it. Gmail, the service which MTA-STS was created to be used with, has 1 day max-age for it.

Gmail has a lot of quite blatant security weaknesses and phishing weaknesses. People largely repeat the mantra of it being secure because Google account login security is decent including an option to make it harder to hijack accounts via customer support missing elsewhere.

Not really interested in a debate about it where someone repeats talking points often visible here and gets angry with us for not agreeing including getting angry because people like our replies.

https://x.com/Avamander/status/2025719336552284161

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#900
post #356
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in Europe you can use Curve Pay, PayPal and multiple banks which haven't moved to Google Pay. Alternatively, pay in cash if you want privacy.

Curve Pay refused to give me an account on my Murena FP6 and no local bank offers contactless without google pay, so I'm stuck using a bank card like a caveman.

Murena products aren't nearly as compatible with apps as GrapheneOS along with having poor privacy and atrocious security. Instead of improving privacy and security, they greatly reduce both. Instead of taking great care with the privacy of the included services they bundle many invasive ones.

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand...

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