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The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

cnn.com

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Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#891

Post by jackcosgrove »

Arun2009 wrote: post #426

I am just befuddled by how much of this violence is directly motivated by religious concerns, both on the side of Iran and on the side of Israel and USA. I have been reading on the topic of shunyata or emptiness in Mahayana Buddhism, and have been uncomfortably observing just how much of the artifacts we take to be real and substantial in the world are just "made up". They don't have an inherent reality of their own…

Complexity can lead to "more is different" outcomes at higher strata. I would not say reified concepts are "made up" as they can have very real effects on both higher and lower strata.

The fallacy of reification is treating something emergent as a thing-unto-itself rather than a process or interaction born from constituents at a lower stratum. A reified thing can be recognized and changed for this reason. A mental concept needs only a change of mind to mutate, or to be destroyed.

Religion may well prove to be a reification that is destroyed once it is recognized as such. But I do believe that you cannot reduce that which is real and not real to only those things that have physical antecedents at lower strata, as we see emergent phenomena in the physical world as well.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#892

Post by markus_zhang »

nailer wrote: post #866
jmward01 wrote: post #710

Ok. So we have just taken out all of Israel's foes with force. They are safe now right? We can stop supporting them militarily in every way now right? They no longer need any weapons, intelligence support, defense support, etc, right? If this is the right path to their long term safety then this must be true.

Iranian regime was the entire middle east’s foe, including Irans. Speak to your local Persian.

For sure a lot of people in Iran hate the regime. But given their 40 or so years of rule, I doubt they could achieve that without a strong basis.

And yeah Iranians out of Iran definitely hate it too.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#893

Post by GorbachevyChase »

jmyeet wrote: post #514
Arun2009 wrote: post #426

I am just befuddled by how much of this violence is directly motivated by religious concerns, both on the side of Iran and on the side of Israel and USA. I have been reading on the topic of shunyata or emptiness in Mahayana Buddhism, and have been uncomfortably observing just how much of the artifacts we take to be real and substantial in the world are just "made up". They don't have an inherent reality of their own…

> I am just befuddled by how much of this violence is directly motivated by religious concerns, both on the side of Iran and on the side of Israel and USA. This just isn't true. Religion is never the reason for these conflicts. It's the excuse. It's how that conflict is sold to the rest of the world. It's how civilians are manipulated into dying in a conflict. The source of these conflicts is always material . Always…

I think the praise of the strategic value to US military interests are rationalizations and poor ones at that. The Gulf monarchies are allies in a meaningful sense and provide useful material support to the United States. Our “ally“ on the other hand was recently caught running a child prostitution ring and money laundering operation to control business and political leaders in the United States. Kidnapping children and removing their teeth so they can’t bite their rapists for political leverage is going to be remembered by future generations with the same horror and disgust as medieval torture and 20th century concentration camps.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#895

Post by CamperBob2 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #444
sega_sai wrote: post #363

The take home message from this is that the only way for any country to be secure is to have nuclear weapons.

"In the world of strategic studies, there has been a return to ‘theories of [nuclear] victory’. Their proponents draw on the work of past scholars such as Henry Kissinger, who wondered in his 1957 book Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy if extending the American deterrent to all of Europe at a time when the threat of total destruction hung over the US itself would actually work: ‘A reliance on all-out war as the chie…

Who will be launching the tactical nuclear attacks? The US is no longer equipped with tactical nukes, as I understand it (corrections welcome).

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#898

Post by lakrici88284 »

rich_sasha wrote: post #427
sega_sai wrote: post #363

The take home message from this is that the only way for any country to be secure is to have nuclear weapons.

And not to negotiate with the US in good faith.

The US demands were clear - no nuclear capability whatsoever, not really a hard demand to meet if you're coming "in good faith".

Iran decided to play stupid games and found out.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#899

Post by csense »

Israel and the US told Iran "Don't try to develop nukes or else." Iran tried to develop nukes and got bombed. Then Iran tried to develop nukes again.

PotUS told Iran "Don't shoot the protestors or else." Iran shot the protestors.

Iran chose to FAFO; "Or else" has now arrived.

I don't like Trump and based on past bad experiences I'm not sure it's wise for the US to start a war in the Middle East.

I feel sorry for the civilians caught in the middle, e.g. the ~50 Iranian schoolkids that ate a wayward bomb. People can legitimately criticize the US and Israel for that mistake, but if they do they need to also criticize Iran ~200 times harder for killing tens of thousands of protestors on purpose.

I don't agree with people who think this war is illegitimate or Iran isn't the bad guy here.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#900

Post by [deleted] »

csense wrote: post #899

Israel and the US told Iran "Don't try to develop nukes or else." Iran tried to develop nukes and got bombed. Then Iran tried to develop nukes again. PotUS told Iran "Don't shoot the protestors or else." Iran shot the protestors. Iran chose to FAFO; "Or else" has now arrived. I don't like Trump and based on past bad experiences I'm not sure it's wise for the US to start a war in the Middle East. I feel sorry for the…

[deleted]
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