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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#891

Post by beAbU »

carlosjobim wrote: post #837
barbazoo wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in the EU, living in North America now, it's mind blowing to me how much credit these companies are making available to me. Not that I ever would outside of an actual emergency but I can see how it's tempting to someone who didn't grow up in a financial risk averse society.

It's amazing. Meanwhile your fellow Europeans wouldn't trust to lend you their power drill for a weekend, even if you've known each other for 30 years. My European business banks have never offered any kind of line of credit. Of course they probably would if I needed, and went there to grovel and prostrate myself. In contrast, my American business bank just sends unprompted e-mails sometimes asking if I would like to…

Nah, more like the money is lent out because it's so profitable to exploit americans addicted to debt.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#892

Post by beAbU »

carlosjobim wrote: post #837
barbazoo wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in the EU, living in North America now, it's mind blowing to me how much credit these companies are making available to me. Not that I ever would outside of an actual emergency but I can see how it's tempting to someone who didn't grow up in a financial risk averse society.

It's amazing. Meanwhile your fellow Europeans wouldn't trust to lend you their power drill for a weekend, even if you've known each other for 30 years. My European business banks have never offered any kind of line of credit. Of course they probably would if I needed, and went there to grovel and prostrate myself. In contrast, my American business bank just sends unprompted e-mails sometimes asking if I would like to…

> That's why business can flourish much more in the USA.

And look where that's gotten you.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#893

Post by eythian »

jimnotgym wrote: post #283
carlosjobim wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is Europe in this sense? In the Europe I know, every small business has accepted cards for decades. The exception if there are some children selling strawberries to tourists. As for your second paragraph, you seem to be dreaming. Americans are some of the best tourists to deal with, and anybody who works in the tourism sector is happy to receive them.

I haven't been to every country in Europe, it is true. A few years ago I shut down a website in Poland for someone because people didn't want to pay with cards, they wanted COD. My colleague took a train regularly in the Netherlands a few years back that was cash only. Dutch websites also have to offer whatever the Dutch payment provider is (I forget). Another colleague in rural Spain found that the price they were c…

> My colleague took a train regularly in the Netherlands a few years back that was cash only.

I don't know what a few years back was, but I can't believe there was a train in NL that was cash at all for quite some time. In the past over 10 years it's always been an OV-chipkaart, and you can get an anonymous one that you pre-load with money. I'm not even sure if you can pay with cash, short of buying a ticket/loading the card from a person at a desk.

> Dutch websites also have to offer whatever the Dutch payment provider is (I forget).

iDeal, which Wero is based on.

About the only thing I use cash for in NL is paying for my barber as he doesn't take any card, and I'm pretty sure that's black money.

Germany has always had a bit of a relationship with cash, I'd always keep €1-200 in my pocket when I went there, though this is changing now.

> I think we will manage without Visa just fine.

There is also Cirrus and Maestro which are run by Visa and Mastercard, which appears on a lot of debit cards around the world, though I don't know exactly how it works (i.e. do the cards tend to use the local network within the country and only go to the cirrus etc. networks when international, or do they do it always?)

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#894

Post by beAbU »

hermanzegerman wrote: post #562
cassepipe wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always heard that the 2fa verification really depended on the vendor actually doing that auth so I always scrape the 3 verification number (what is it for anyways ?) at the back of my card. It's just 3 numbers after all.

It's mandatory by law, and it's additionally to the 3 numbers at the back of the card. Usually it works by confirming or denying the transaction on the App of your Issuing bank

None of the eu amazons have 2fa on their card transactions.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#895

Post by eythian »

Freak_NL wrote: post #301
joevandyk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This last summer, I couldn’t use my US-issued Visa or Mastercard credit card in most places in the Netherlands. Had to use debit.

Why would you expect to be able to use a creditcard in a physical shop in the Netherlands? Surely you knew? It works if the payment terminal has support for it, but since no Dutch person uses a creditcard outside of the internet, your kinda going against the grain.

That's not really true. Especially in the more touristy places, credit cards are generally accepted and it'd be unusual for it not to be. If you're out in a village in, I dunno, Brabant, then sure. But the places that visitors are likely to be I'd expect cards to work.

I think even AH accepts credit cards these days, though I haven't tried it myself.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#896

Post by carlosjobim »

beAbU wrote: post #892
carlosjobim wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing. Meanwhile your fellow Europeans wouldn't trust to lend you their power drill for a weekend, even if you've known each other for 30 years. My European business banks have never offered any kind of line of credit. Of course they probably would if I needed, and went there to grovel and prostrate myself. In contrast, my American business bank just sends unprompted e-mails sometimes asking if I would like to…

> That's why business can flourish much more in the USA. And look where that's gotten you.

Indeed!

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#897

Post by koonsolo »

globular-toast wrote: post #663
codethief wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's deeply tied to US corporate. In what way specifically? Android and iOS are just the OS the banking apps that implement Wero happen to run on. There is nothing stopping them from releasing a Linux app. Or a web app.

But they won't though, will they? Or maybe we can look forward to that in another 30 years when they realise they are, once again, dependent on American tech.

You can't expect them to fix everything all at once. What about the hardware?

Let them focus on offering a payment system, and let others focus on their thing.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#898

Post by marcosdumay »

sjm-lbm wrote: post #163
overfeed wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> credit cards are giving you a revolving loan, there's risk it will not be repaid, and that risk ends up reflected in processing fees Neither Visa nor MasterCard are loaning customers their money. It's the European banks that hold the bulk of the risk for European credit card transactions.

Also worth noting that who owns the risk is a regulatory question, not a technical or product one - and, like all regulatory questions, is different for different countries/regions. Chip and pin and NFC transitions took off much quicker outside the US because merchants generally owned more of the chargeback risk than in the US, and therefore were willing to update their POS equipment accordingly. Risk (like debt) is…

Just to put another perspective there. In Brazil, chip and pin took off immediately (from non-existent to ubiquitous in about 6 months) after the government decided that the bank and card issuer were responsible for all the fraud risk.

I have no idea what policy made the US hold into signatures for that long. But the seller and the buyer are the least powerful people on that entire chain, so I don't think it reasonable to look at them.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#899

Post by Sharparam »

Hikikomori wrote: post #272
SomeUserName432 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would never buy a plane ticket on debit. Airbnb reservations I also tend to do on credit. Anything related to company expenses I also do on credit and receive reimbursement prior to having to pay it myself.

In Europe you typically have travel insurance on debit cards as well.

Certainly not the case in Sweden. Although travel insurance is usually included in your home/renters insurance.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#900

Post by ericmay »

Hikikomori wrote: post #719
ericmay wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who all stop in chain hotels, who will accept whatever you bring. No, that's pretty much all European hotels actually. Hotels require credit cards for three reasons: 1. Security - if you leave the room a mess or destroyed there's an avenue for recourse. 2. To make more money - having a card on file for "incidentals" increases purchases from hotel guests. 3. Obtain payment - most people don't have the cash laying ar…

>Hotels require credit cards for three reasons >Can you provide the name of a single hotel in Europe that doesn't take credit cards? Holy goalpost.

How is this a goalpost shift? The person I was responding to seems to think it's only tourist and chain hotels that accept credit cards.

Show me a hotel in Europe that doesn't. Stop trying to associate credit card usage with foreign tourism in a negative light.

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