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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#891

Post by antiframe »

sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #840
gkfasdfasdf wrote: post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And to add insult to injury, even GM Super Cruise is widely renowned as better and safer than Tesla’s current “FSD”. Do you have any sources for that claim? I can attest that current iteration of FSD is very, very good, and very likely is a safer driver than I am. At least one major insurance company agrees [0]. I don't have any experience with Super Cruise though. [0] - https://www.lemonade.com/fsd

> At least one major insurance company agrees You mean the insurance company that has only existed for 10 years and I never heard of before this Tesla tie-in marketing gimmick?

Also an insurance company that A.M. Best rates B+. Which is fine, but when buying insurance I want to make sure that my company can weather major catastrophes.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#893

Post by boondongle »

I just hate that what's actually going on with this company is so buried between Musk's bs, and people hate Musk so much that they spew bs as well. Seems to be just "pick your liar" with this company.

X going away probably isn't surprising given sales dynamics. More people would tend to opt for the cross-over or sedan. The model S is a little more shocking since it was always niche, but honestly Tesla doesn't have the trim to be priced like that and I suspect in order to get from where they're at to BMW/Audi etc., just isn't where they want to invest their money.

This definitely feels like an "oh no, people stopped buying" pivot but the moves themselves make sense.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#894

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

edmundsauto wrote: post #859
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is making humanoid robots a moat? It really isn't. (1) Also, what's the first billion dollar market for humanoid robots? Industry? "lights-out manufacturing" exists already, and doesn't require humanoid robots. Hyundai and BYD (among others) say they're going to put humanoid robots in their factories (2). They won't be Tesla robots. Is this really such a huge use? 1) https://www.topgear.com/car-news/tech/here-a…

I want my laundry robot!

Is that a billion dollar market, is it within reach, and does it require a humanoid? And if so, will any 1 company have a lock on it?

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#895

Post by antiframe »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #794
trhway wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The refresh would need large investment. And it seems that S/X weren't selling that well to warrant such an investment. Just looking around - SV, a key market for Tesla - everybody buys 3 and Y, not S and X. In some sense it seems that 3/Y cannibalized S/X.

How can legacy auto refresh models every two years and Tesla cannot?

Perhaps it has to do with sales numbers? The Model S and Model X were not selling well.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#896

Post by xnx »

gkfasdfasdf wrote: post #780
sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

> And to add insult to injury, even GM Super Cruise is widely renowned as better and safer than Tesla’s current “FSD”. Do you have any sources for that claim? I can attest that current iteration of FSD is very, very good, and very likely is a safer driver than I am. At least one major insurance company agrees [0]. I don't have any experience with Super Cruise though. [0] - https://www.lemonade.com/fsd

> At least one major insurance company agrees

Lemonade has <1% market share

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#897

Post by klaff »

malshe wrote: post #827
WillPostForFood wrote: post #802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just about sales, it is about margin. F150 Lightning was losing money on each unit produced - they cost about 40% more to product than they sold for. Cybertruck has a positive gross margin, so even though sales are terrible, they don't have have a pressing financial need to cancel it.

Tesla doesn't disclose the gross margin on Cybertruck. They may say it is positive but if nobody knows what constituted those gross margins or what they amounted to, it's pretty much meaningless.

Hard to imagine it being profitable given the very low utilization of the production line and associated tooling.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#898

Post by iknowstuff »

root_axis wrote: post #860
IncreasePosts wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your Tesla is 5 years old aren't you getting a degraded FSD model due to weak hardware?

I took it in for a HW update in 2023. I do believe there is an even newer hardware stack since then, but as far as I'm aware the HW doesn't impact the supported capabilities.

You’re wrong. Your fsd12 is a very different beast from the current fsd14, so stop talking authoritatively about the latest fsd.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#899

Post by baggachipz »

rconti wrote: post #275
nunez wrote: post #107

This is sad in that I was serious about finally getting one in two to three years (We have two Model 3 LRs already), but is fantastic in that no other car interests me and I now don't have this hyper materialistic goal distracting me. If Tesla completely exits automotive and decides to license their FSD tech (or someone else catches up), then I'll probably just get whatever the equivalent of a Bolt is then with that…

Wait, an S? Why? I've got a 3 LR too and.... I just can't say anything about the extraordinarily long-in-the-tooth S excites me. Usually something is desirable when it's new, then the desirability fades as the product ages and other new, hot things come onto the market. Don't get me wrong, I don't generally lust after EVs, but I am looking forward to the R3X....

We're all going to need to buy some R2's if we want the R3X to become a thing. I have my reservation!

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#900

Post by hnburnsy »

dstroot wrote: post #793
sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

And Elon canceled the S and X models but not the Cybertruck? C’mon…

I wonder if they reconfigure it and tone down the look to something more traditional.
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