What sickened me is our quarry wanted to buy 5 Lightning F150s a few months after they came out and no dealer near me in DFW would even take an order because “the wait list is too long”.
Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales
891–900 of 1001 posts
Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales
#892Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a conspiracy theory take on traditional manufacturers being so anti-EV. Basically the primary differentiator between car companies and the primary barrier to entry in the combustion vehicle business is the engine, especially in the US. Look at the marketing, horsepower and torque are always the topline numbers. Zero to sixty and quarter mile drag races are the favored metrics. Each company spent decades perfec…
That's one way of seeing it, but the fact is that automobile parts are already nearly commodity parts. The wall that stops automaker upstarts in their tracks is the need for safety testing and approval from the US DOT. Even if you had the chutzpah to get all of the materials together for a fleet of vehicles, you have to spend big cash and grease a lot of palms to get a vehicle you make certified. It takes years and m…
Do you think the DOT should have a X program similar to the FAA that allows manufacturers that sell less than some number of cars a year (maybe 100?) to bypass most of the testing but require buyers to sign a disclaimer that they know the vehicle has not been fully tested for safety?
Also, I don't think it is the cost of DOT testing that is the primary barrier to entry for a company with three quarters of a trillion dollars in revenue. The domestic car manufacturers are never going to stand for a repeat of the Japanese invasion of the 70s that nearly bankrupted all of them simply because they were not listening to the customers and trying to sell vehicles that were too big and too expensive. Everyone knows what would happen if some bare bones $15,000 EV with a 250 mile range and ample supply appeared in the market.
Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales
#893Earlier quoted context omitted.
> According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. > So what do people actually like about trucks? According to Edwards, the ans…
> the majority are just using it as parent said, a luxobarge 25% use it for towing. 30% use it off road. 65% use it for hauling. Obviously there's overlap but how many people do none of those three? It's less than 35% which is not a majority.
one time a year or less was the suffix for each of these, many more people fall into the once a month or so category. The economical thing to do is buy a civic and rent a truck the one time a year you use it for truck things.
Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales
#894Earlier quoted context omitted.
> According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. > So what do people actually like about trucks? According to Edwards, the ans…
>The F-series is the best selling car family in the US. Some of them are using it for its intended purpose sure, the majority are just using it as parent said, a luxobarge. A F550 box truck and a crew cab shortbed F150 are both F-series as well as everything in between. If not the best selling it had better be damn close with all the different vehicles that exist under that one nameplate.
The F-150 alone has been Americas best selling vehicle for 47 years straight until getting dethroned by the RAV4 in 2024 (unless you add any of the other F-series trucks). It appears to be back on top in 2025.
Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales
#895Earlier quoted context omitted.
The main thing holding EV back is the oil industry, not the tech. The US is the only country lagging on EV and its all because the industry puts so much effort in to squashing all progress. EVs are simpler and cheaper. Look at how fast adoption is growing outside the US. If US citizens could buy a BYD for the same price as in China, the the US auto makers and oil companies would be in trouble.
It's not only US, it's global. I drive quite a lot throught southern Europe with my EV, and it's super frustrating that gas stations have the infrastructure on the highway while for my EV I have to go just outside the highway to a fast charger (wasting time), then I need to pay again (and waste a lot of time to go through the gate) to get back on the highway for example in Italy.
Toll gates in general are a waste of time. I use bip&go + telepass lanes in Italy to get through them faster.
Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales
#896Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They have worse prices (higher) Does this factor in cost of ownership? Gas, oil changes, less complexity? > worse range (lower, particularly for towing) Towing reduces a gas powered car’s range, too.
> Does this factor in cost of ownership? Gas, oil changes, less complexity? No, I'm just talking about sticker price. Lifetime EV costs are relatively unknown at this point, so that would be a relatively speculative comparison. You have to have a pretty optimistic view on long-term EV maintenance costs and charging costs to have EVs pencil out better with long-term cost of ownership. If you want to talk about ongoing…
> No, I'm just talking about sticker price.
So a car that's free to operate - zero maintenance, zero fuel cost - that cost $10k more than a regular car would not be a financial win?
Sticker price is a silly metric to solely focus on. Doubly so considering people rarely actually pay sticker.
Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales
#897Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding is the difference in carbon emission from manufacturing a BEV vs. an ICE vehicle is about 4 tons of carbon, roughly what you would get from 400 gallons of gasoline. So to make up the carbon deficit the BEV needs to drive about 8,000 miles assuming the ICE truck has above average highway MPG. This does assume the electricity comes from renewables though, if you have coal fired electricity then the fig…
8000 miles towing 10k lbs in a Cyber truck would be roughly 70 charging stops at an hour each 8000 miles towing 10k lbs in a diesel super duty would be 30 stops at 15 mins each. That's 70 hours vs 7.5 hours. Every 8000 miles
I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion. Also if you are one if the low single digit percentage of people who do long distance towing regularly then yeah, get a diesel. I was talking more about people who live in the suburbs and commute to work and back in their truck, never tow anything, and use the bed maybe twice a year. About 67% of truck owners in the US.
Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales
#898Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bim…
Bingo. Sprinter vans, utility vans, or even minivans are far, far more useful for trades than modern pickups. Heck, my minivan was the goat for home renovations—it’d easily fit a dozen full 4x8 sheets of drywall/osb/ply/mdf/etc and I could still close the rear gate. I always got chuckles from guys awkwardly wrangling/securing sheets onto a pickup’s bed at the supply yard when I’d easily slide the sheets off the cart…
How do you fit a 40ft ladder inside a van? How about a mound of mulch or compost? How about hauling away customer's old plumbing or any number of filthy things you don't want in a car interior? Not to mention that when it contains heavy items like a large beam of wood, you often can't physically lift it out with those awkward van angles, but could in a truck bed.
First of all I'm not convinced that the utility of the trucks is mostly unused. This seems like a trope from anticar people. But second of all and more concretely, I've done a lot of trade work that would have simply not worked in a van, so seeing your common sentiment is always bemusing.
Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales
#899Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics That and also it's just a bad product. >That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one edit: agree there's a market…
> A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bim…
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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales
#900Earlier quoted context omitted.
Buy a Ford Maverik hybrid. Similar size, great mileage.
Except it's a Ford and not a Chevy. If you think those things don't matter, you're just fooling yourself.
The 2.5 hybrid in the Maverick is better than any 4 cyl GM could plop into a mini truck at the moment.