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Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

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Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#891

Post by sneak »

bigbluedots wrote: post #370

It is nice to hear someone who is so influential just come out and say it. At my workplace, the expectation is that everyone will use AI in their daily software dev work. It's a difficult position for those of us who feel that using AI is immoral due to the large scale theft of the labor of many of our fellow developers, not to mention the many huge data centers being built and their need for electricity, pushing up…

Copying isn’t theft, and it’s DEFINITELY not theft of labor.

Then again, you already knew this because we’ve been pointing it out to the RIAA and MPAA and the copyright cartels for decades now.

It is my personal opinion that attempts to reframe AI training as criminal are in bad faith, and come from the fact that AI haters have no legitimate basis of damages from which to have any say in the matter about AI training, which harms no one.

Now that it’s a convenient cudgel in the anti-AI ragefest, people have reverted to parroting the MPAA’s ideology from the 2000s. You wouldn’t download a training set!

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#892

Post by Vaslo »

user____name wrote: post #431
xorgun wrote: post #393

I don’t understand why anyone thinks we have a choice on AI. If America doesn’t win, other countries will. We don’t live in a Utopia, and getting the entire world to behave a certain way is impossible (see covid). Yes, AI videos and spam is annoying, but the cat is out of the bag. Use AI where it’s useful and get with the programme. The bigger issue everyone should be focusing on is growing hypocrisy and overly purit…

> I don’t understand why anyone thinks we have a choice on AI. Of course we do. We don't live inside some game theoretic fever dream.

What is your big idea and how will it slow countries like China?

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#893

Post by gamblor956 »

Bratmon wrote: post #808
fc417fc802 wrote: post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither take is correct. When correctly applied it can be an effective tool to encourage certain sorts of intellectual endeavors by making them monetarily favorable. When incorrectly applied it leads to dysfunction as is the case for most regulatory regimes. Any tool can be used by a wrongdoer for evil. Corporations will manipulate the regulator in order to rent seek using whatever happens to be available to them. Th…

> When correctly applied it can be an effective tool to encourage certain sorts of intellectual endeavors by making them monetarily favorable This has been empirically disproven. China experimented with having no enforced Intellectual Property laws, and the result was that they were able to do the same technological advancement it took the West 250 years to do and surpass them in four decades. Intellectual Property l…

China has IP laws and enforces them against foreign companies but not domestic ones.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#894

Post by deaux »

suralind wrote: post #727

I don’t really understand the hate he gets over this. If you want to thank someone for their contribution, do that yourself? Sending thank you from an ML model is anything but respectful. I can only imagine that if I got a message like that I’d be furious too. This reminds me a story from my mom’s work from years ago: the company she was working for announced salary increases to each worker individually. Some, like m…

> I don’t really understand the hate he gets over this.

For me, the dislike comes from the first part of the message. All of a sudden people who never gave a single shit about the environment, and still make zero lifestyle changes (besides "not using AI") for it, claim to massively care. It's all hypocritical bullshit by people who are scared of losing their jobs or of the societal damage. Which there is a risk of, definitely! So go talk about that. Not about the water usage while munching on your beef burger which took 2100 litres of water to produce. It's laughable.

Now I don't know Rob Pike. Maybe he's vegetarian, barely flies, and buys his devices second-hand. Maybe. He'd be the very first person clamouring about the environmental effects of AI I've seen who does so. The people I know who actually do care about the environment and so have made such lifestyle changes, don't focus much about AI's effects in particular.

> Fuck you people. Raping the planet, spending trillions on toxic, unrecyclable equipment while blowing up society

So yeah, if you haven't already been doing the above things for a long time, fuck you Rob Pike, for this performative bullshit.

If you have, then sorry Rob, you're a guy of your word.

Interesting to see that people are a huge fan of Rob saying those things, but not of me saying this, looking at the downvotes.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#895

Post by duxup »

DiskoHexyl wrote: post #744
duxup wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bite. For say a random individual ... they may be unsure about their own writing skills and want to say something but unsure of the words to use.

In such case it's okay to not write the thing. Or to write it crudely- with errors and naivete, bursting with emotion and letting whatever it is inside you to flow on paper, like kids do. It's okay too. Or to painstakingly work on the letter, stumbling and rewriting and reading, and then rewriting again and again until what you read matches how you feel. Most people are very forgiving of poor writing skills when faci…

It's the writers call on how to try to write it.

I think the "you should painstakingly work on my thank you letter" is a bit of a rude ask / expectation.

Some folks struggle with wordsmithing and want to get better.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#896

Post by bigfatkitten »

gorgoiler wrote: post #23
bigyabai wrote: post #2

> I want no local storage anywhere near me other than maybe caches. No disks, no state, my world entirely in the network. Storage needs to be backed up and maintained, which should be someone else's problem, one I'm happy to pay to have them solve. [0] I can't help but think Pike somewhat contributed to this pillaging. [0] (2012) https://usesthis.com/interviews/rob.pike/

Encryption is the key! I appreciate though that the majority of cloud storage providers fall short, perhaps deliberately, of offering a zero knowledge service (where they backup your data but cannot themselves read it.)

Google is the sole exception of the major players. They offer it, but it costs enormous amounts of money.

https://support.google.com/a/answer/10741897?hl=en

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#897

Post by XorNot »

hijodelsol wrote: post #783
suralind wrote: post #727

I don’t really understand the hate he gets over this. If you want to thank someone for their contribution, do that yourself? Sending thank you from an ML model is anything but respectful. I can only imagine that if I got a message like that I’d be furious too. This reminds me a story from my mom’s work from years ago: the company she was working for announced salary increases to each worker individually. Some, like m…

Sending an automated thank you note also shows disdain for the recipient's time due to the asymmetry of the interaction. The sender clearly sees the thank you note sending as a task not worthy of their time and thus hands it off to a machine, but expects the recipient to read it themselves. This inherently ranks the importance of their respective time and effort.

Really makes you appreciate the point of view of the Scramblers in Blindsight...

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#898

Post by nhinck3 »

trinsic2 wrote: post #748

>"For myself, the big fraud is getting public to believe that Intellectual Property was a moral principle and not just effective BS to justify corporate rent seeking." If anything, I'm glad people are finally starting to wake up to this fact.

Waking up to the fact that the largest corporations in the world are stealing off everyday people to sell a subscription to their theft driven service?

The absolute delusion.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#899

Post by xnx »

hijodelsol wrote: post #783
suralind wrote: post #727

I don’t really understand the hate he gets over this. If you want to thank someone for their contribution, do that yourself? Sending thank you from an ML model is anything but respectful. I can only imagine that if I got a message like that I’d be furious too. This reminds me a story from my mom’s work from years ago: the company she was working for announced salary increases to each worker individually. Some, like m…

Sending an automated thank you note also shows disdain for the recipient's time due to the asymmetry of the interaction. The sender clearly sees the thank you note sending as a task not worthy of their time and thus hands it off to a machine, but expects the recipient to read it themselves. This inherently ranks the importance of their respective time and effort.

Yes. Just like lazy pull requests, it's bad behavior by a person that is only facilitated by AI.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#900

Post by rester324 »

bdangubic wrote: post #880
bigbluedots wrote: post #370

It is nice to hear someone who is so influential just come out and say it. At my workplace, the expectation is that everyone will use AI in their daily software dev work. It's a difficult position for those of us who feel that using AI is immoral due to the large scale theft of the labor of many of our fellow developers, not to mention the many huge data centers being built and their need for electricity, pushing up…

do you apply same standards when you say buy a phone?! never gonna buy iphone cause we know how and by whom they are made? never going to use any social media apps cause … well you see where this is going? you seem to be randomly putting a foot down on “issue du jour”…

Buying a phone is a non-dispensable part of life today. There are some government services in many countries which are digital only (and phone only in particular), and restaurants, hotels, etc in the service industry which all require you having a phone, otherwise you can't use their services. And this trend is growing. So if you are the type who wants to live in a cave, or hang yourself on a tree rather than accepting that modern societies require a modern phone, thats's your choice. But others rather accept this. We are beyond the point where this trend can be reversed. On the other hand AI is not that integral part of people's lives yet, and it's better to protest now as long as it has an impact
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