Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#891

Post by buyucu » Sun, Oct 05, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

jameshilliard wrote: post #890

buyucu wrote: post #889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no matter how you define it, those people had to run away from Palestine because of Israeli murderers.

> those people had to run away from Palestine because of Israeli murderers There were multiple reason they(or their ancestors) left, there was plenty of violence when Israel was created but it wasn't like it was just one side attacking either. Regardless it's quite strange that someone is still considered a refugee despite potentially having never even been to the country they are supposedly a refugee from, especiall…

Are you seriously defending expelling millions of people from their homes? What is wrong with you?

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#892

Post by za3faran » Sun, Oct 05, 2025, 9:43 PM UTC

pron wrote: post #884

za3faran wrote: post #881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Arab Empire's conquests are called both Muslim conquests or Arab conquests ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests ). If you look at the citation for the latter designation, you will see that it is a non-Muslim/non-Arab source. Never have I heard the term (الفتوحات العربية) in any proper source. As far as I know "Arab conquests" is a modern phrasing used in English (orientalist historiography). I…

> If you mean the Rashidun, Umayyad, or Abbasid Caliphates, then those were not simply "Arabian" empires - they were Islamic. Non-Arab peoples were deeply involved at every stage. The unifying goal wasn't to spread Arab nationalism but the spread of Islam. Well, nationalism is a very modern concept, and things gets murky once we go further back. The very same could be said about applying the moniker "European" to the…

> Yes, and the same, of course, applies to Arab nationalism, which, at least in part, expressly allied itself with Nazi Germany.

I'm not so sure about that. Are you referring to specific, minority individuals pushing what you are claiming, as opposed to a more systematic approach? And how much of what happened was a reaction to the zionist immigration from Europe?

The fact that by the time of WWII, most Arabs were Muslims - and such an ideology explicitly contradicts Islam. We also know that the movement was heavily in response to (the also misguided) Turkish national movement - Young Turks during the last days of the Ottoman Caliphate.

The Arab nationalist movements in Egypt and Syria were primarily anti-colonial and not really aligned with the Nazis. After WWII, Arab nationalism (e.g. Ba'thism) was shaped by opposition to western imperialism and zionism as opposed to any nazi connection.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#893

Post by jameshilliard » Sun, Oct 05, 2025, 10:05 PM UTC

buyucu wrote: post #891

jameshilliard wrote: post #890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those people had to run away from Palestine because of Israeli murderers There were multiple reason they(or their ancestors) left, there was plenty of violence when Israel was created but it wasn't like it was just one side attacking either. Regardless it's quite strange that someone is still considered a refugee despite potentially having never even been to the country they are supposedly a refugee from, especiall…

Are you seriously defending expelling millions of people from their homes? What is wrong with you?

There was a war, people fled and were expelled from their homes for various reasons, Jews lost their homes as well due to the war. Sometimes fleeing a conflict is the least bad option. I have grandparents that had to flee their homes due to living in a country that was on the losing side of a war, they never got their homes/land back. I would probably even be considered a refugee by the UNRWA definition of refugee used for Palestinians. After Israels independence most Jews living in Arab countries were also forced out of their homes/land, I don't see Jews trying to get their original homes back in those Arab countries either. We can't go back in time and fix all the historical wrongs in the world, we have to move forwards.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#894

Post by pron » Sun, Oct 05, 2025, 10:11 PM UTC

za3faran wrote: post #892

pron wrote: post #884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you mean the Rashidun, Umayyad, or Abbasid Caliphates, then those were not simply "Arabian" empires - they were Islamic. Non-Arab peoples were deeply involved at every stage. The unifying goal wasn't to spread Arab nationalism but the spread of Islam. Well, nationalism is a very modern concept, and things gets murky once we go further back. The very same could be said about applying the moniker "European" to the…

> Yes, and the same, of course, applies to Arab nationalism, which, at least in part, expressly allied itself with Nazi Germany. I'm not so sure about that. Are you referring to specific, minority individuals pushing what you are claiming, as opposed to a more systematic approach? And how much of what happened was a reaction to the zionist immigration from Europe? The fact that by the time of WWII, most Arabs were Mu…

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_fascism

As to it being a reaction, be careful not to look at things from a perspective that sets out to pass a moral judgment on history. Virtually everything in history is a reaction to something else. Zionism was a reaction to antisemitism and part of a larger trend of national movements; even Nazism was, in a way, a reaction to Germany's defeat in WW1 and what ensued (and a minority ideology until they took control and then that didn't matter anymore) and so on and so on.

It's perfectly okay to say that certain actions in history were morally right, wrong, or complicated, but everyone involved in any of them felt their actions were justified by something they believed or had experienced. There are no good or bad nations. Virtually every society has done both good and terrible things at different points in time.