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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#891

Post by 1over137 »

mothballed wrote: post #710
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

I don't own a phone, but the most shocking revelation came when my child's school required us to use an app to specify how our children will be picked up or ride the bus. So far I've been able to avoid using apps for pretty much anything, but when the school says "use an app or you won't get your kids" and then also say they will call CPS and have your kids seized if you don't get them in time, that puts you in a rea…

What country is that in?!??

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#892

Post by amluto »

nobody9999 wrote: post #886
amluto wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes contemplate that this sort of incidental ToS should be 100% unenforceable. Here’s what I mean: suppose I want to order a cup of coffee at a cafe. I’ve made a choice to go to that cafe, and it’s at least generally reasonable that the cafe and I should agree to some terms under which they sell me coffee, and those terms should be enforceable. But if the cafe requires me to use an app, and the app requires m…

>One way to address this might be to have a rule that third parties like Google cannot assert any sort of claim against an end user arising from that end user’s terms of service with the cafe. Or just require retail businesses to accept cash. Which many jurisdictions have done. Problem solved.

That doesn’t help if you need to use an app to order.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#893

Post by neya »

> An iPhone without iOS is a very different product to what we understand an iPhone to be. Forcing Apple to change core tenets of iOS by legislative means would undermine what made the iPhone successful.

Rules for thee, not for me. Every typical Apple lover's argument.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#895

Post by myroon5 »

argomo wrote: post #321
makeitdouble wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The power dynamic between the gifter and the giftee isn't that simple. Even bribes dynamics will change a lot depending on who does it and to which amount. There is a whole antropologic field around that, but to keep it short, if you pay your palace and all expenses with the money funneled to you as gifts, you're not the one in control. Fun read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy

CGP Grey's "The Rules for Rulers" (on YouTube) may also be relevant here.

https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#896

Post by monomial »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #882
phowat wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly I think it's a lost cause and sadly doesn't make sense to waste energy on it anymore. I eventually abandoned my de-googled phone exactly because I couldn't use my bank with it.

I don’t use a bank with a phone. What do you do with it? (One exception, I used to scan checks five years ago, but thankfully that finally ended.)

Same. I have a very old iPhone stuck on an old version of iOS that's incompatible with most apps these days. In the rare case I need to deposit a check there are banks like Ally that don't have physical branch locations but still let you deposit checks via their website.

I'm curious what people need a bank app for.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#897

Post by adiabatichottub »

wilg wrote: post #887
adiabatichottub wrote: post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

File it under faulty assumptions organizations make about their clients or customers. If you live in a rural area in the United States it is still quite possible to have: * No cellular service * No landline service * No postal delivery to your property, and a physical address that isn't in any database * No public utilities It can be very frustrating to deal with services that assume you have the ability to receive S…

I don't think its unreasonable for private companies not to bother to offer their services to these people. Why should they have to? Many services require nearby physical infrastructure. Electing to live in the woods is not really a disability. Plus you can just get internet out there if you want and thereby receive SMS.

You're right, it's not a disability. However, it's also not always elective. Sure, a private business has no requirement to serve people outside of the market they want to serve, but what if that business is providing a service that is de-facto required in order to access government services?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#898

Post by bigyabai »

pjmlp wrote: post #417
safety1st wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to get wild-eyed now but you can blame Google for that as they're the ones who just announced they'll retroactively ban me from installing software on the computer I bought and own. I don't think you can really solve this problem as long as there's an operating system monopoly, or even duopoly/triopoly. The lure of total control is just too great. Every operating system vendor, hell every intellectual prope…

Meanwhile FOSDEM and similar conferences are full of people carrying Apple devices, and most folks keep picking non-copyleft licenses instead of dual licensing. The Stallman generation is slowly leaving this realm, the opportunity has been lost already.

Sure is slow. The FOSDEM audience you're describing sounds identical to the one from 15 years ago.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#900

Post by hakfoo »

account42 wrote: post #778
callc wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost. Having access to the internet requires a device, or public computer if available. A just society would at least maintain ability to interact with all government services through in-person and through post office. Universal access.

At least in some countries you can use a public computer at a library or other government-provided institution. I agree that it ideally shouldn't be required though.

This seems to be percieved as an explicit intended loophole. I've seen contests where they say "for free entry, go to website..." followed with "internet access can be obtained at libraries".

Obviously, the idea of "you don't have to pay to participate" has a strong legal footing, but I have to wonder if they can find a way to pivot that to "I don't have to acquire an Android/iOS device". Maybe they would develop a kiosk-mode version of the OS that will run apps tethered to a placeholder library account.

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