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Open models by OpenAI

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Re: Open models by OpenAI

#891

Post by 9rx »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #890
9rx wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you think "play like a fiddle" means, but in common usage it generally implies that the one being played is gullible. 1. What suggests that astuteness is required to "trick" the gullible? Especially when we are only talking about a single instance of ostensible "success", not even demonstration of repeatability. Dumb luck remains just as likely of an explanation. 2. Under the assumption of easy mani…

I can't argue with any of that, since technically everyone could have been playing everyone else. Maybe Republicans are easily fooled, or maybe Trump is playing 5-d chess and playing both sides. I just think 'playing like a fiddle' typically means a lopsided power dynamic where one person has much more knowledge, or skill. So I'd assume it was implying Democrats were in a superior position. Not, that Democrats just g…

> So I'd assume it was implying Democrats were in a superior position.

And that is an equally fair assumption. But it is not written into the original comment. You cannot logically project your own take onto what someone else wrote.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#892

Post by FrustratedMonky »

9rx wrote: post #891
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't argue with any of that, since technically everyone could have been playing everyone else. Maybe Republicans are easily fooled, or maybe Trump is playing 5-d chess and playing both sides. I just think 'playing like a fiddle' typically means a lopsided power dynamic where one person has much more knowledge, or skill. So I'd assume it was implying Democrats were in a superior position. Not, that Democrats just g…

> So I'd assume it was implying Democrats were in a superior position. And that is an equally fair assumption. But it is not written into the original comment. You cannot logically project your own take onto what someone else wrote.

Since you seem to have a penchant for the pedantic. And I do too. I can retort, of course I can assume the meaning of common language idioms. All language is projecting onto what others say.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#893

Post by 9rx »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #892
9rx wrote: post #891

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I'd assume it was implying Democrats were in a superior position. And that is an equally fair assumption. But it is not written into the original comment. You cannot logically project your own take onto what someone else wrote.

Since you seem to have a penchant for the pedantic. And I do too. I can retort, of course I can assume the meaning of common language idioms. All language is projecting onto what others say.

You can assume a meaning for the sake of your own purposes, but it does not reflect back on the original comment.

Your quip "So it is the Democrats fault we have Trump???" presumably demonstrates that you understand exactly that. After all, if you could have logically projected your interpretation onto the original comment there would have been no need to ask. You'd have already known.

Still, how you managed establish that there was even potential suggestion of "fault" is a head scratcher. Whether or not the account in the original comment is accurate, it clearly only tells a story of what (supposedly) happened. There is no sensible leap from an ostensible historic account to an attribution of blame.

You seem to indicate, if I understand you correctly, that because you randomly had that idea pop into your head (that Democrats are at fault) when reading the comment that the other party must have also been thinking the same thing, but I find that a little unsatisfactory. Perhaps we need to simply dig deeper, freeing ourselves from the immediate context, and look at the line of thinking more broadly. What insights can you offer into your thought processes?

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#894

Post by xigoi »

unethical_ban wrote: post #413
captainregex wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m still trying to understand what is the biggest group of people that uses local AI (or will)? Students who don’t want to pay but somehow have the hardware? Devs who are price conscious and want free agentic coding? Local, in my experience, can’t even pull data from an image without hallucinating (Qwen 2.5 VI in that example). Hopefully local/small models keep getting better and devices get better at running bigger…

Privacy and equity. Privacy is obvious. AI is going to to be equivalent to all computing in the future. Imagine if only IBM, Apple and Microsoft ever built computers, and all anyone else ever had in the 1990s were terminals to the mainframe, forever.

> AI is going to to be equivalent to all computing in the future.

Thanks, but I prefer my computing to be deterministic if at all possible.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#895

Post by latexr »

cco wrote: post #357

The lede is being missed imo. gpt-oss:20b is a top ten model (on MMLU (right behind Gemini-2.5-Pro) and I just ran it locally on my Macbook Air M3 from last year. I've been experimenting with a lot of local models, both on my laptop and on my phone (Pixel 9 Pro), and I figured we'd be here in a year or two. But no, we're here today. A basically frontier model, running for the cost of electricity (free with a rounding…

I tried their live demo. It suggests three prompts, one of them being “How many R’s are in strawberry?” So I clicked that, and it answered there are three! I tried it thrice with the same result.

It suggested the prompt. It’s infamous because models often get it wrong, they know it, and still they confidently suggested it and got it wrong.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#896

Post by gf000 »

odo1242 wrote: post #809
ben_w wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow me to answer with a rhetorical question: S8O2bm5lbiBTaWUgZGllc2VuIFNhdHogbGVzZW4sIGRhIGVyIGluIEJhc2UtNjQta29kaWVydGVtIERldXRzY2ggdm9ybGllZ3Q/IEhhYmVuIFNpZSBkaWUgQW50d29ydCB2b24gR3J1bmQgYXVmIGVyc2NobG9zc2VuIG9kZXIgaGFiZW4gU2llIG51ciBCYXNlIDY0IGVya2FubnQgdW5kIGRhcyBFcmdlYm5pcyBkYW5uIGluIEdvb2dsZSBUcmFuc2xhdGUgZWluZ2VnZWJlbj8gV2FzIGlzdCDDvGJlcmhhdXB0IOKAnnJlYXNvbmluZ+KAnCwgd2VubiBtYW4gbmljaHQgZGFzIEdlbGVybnRlIGF1c…

(Decoded, if anyone's wondering): > Können Sie diesen Satz lesen, da er in Base-64-kodiertem Deutsch vorliegt? Haben Sie die Antwort von Grund auf erschlossen oder haben Sie nur Base 64 erkannt und das Ergebnis dann in Google Translate eingegeben? Was ist überhaupt „reasoning“, wenn man nicht das Gelernte aus einem Fall auf einen anderen anwendet? > > Can you read this sentence, since it's in Base-64 encoded German?…

Just as a random data point, gpt 4-1 managed to "solve" it on the first run with a basic prompt like "Solve this riddle for me"

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#897

Post by [deleted] »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #892
9rx wrote: post #891

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I'd assume it was implying Democrats were in a superior position. And that is an equally fair assumption. But it is not written into the original comment. You cannot logically project your own take onto what someone else wrote.

Since you seem to have a penchant for the pedantic. And I do too. I can retort, of course I can assume the meaning of common language idioms. All language is projecting onto what others say.

[deleted]

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#898

Post by FrustratedMonky »

9rx wrote: post #893
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you seem to have a penchant for the pedantic. And I do too. I can retort, of course I can assume the meaning of common language idioms. All language is projecting onto what others say.

You can assume a meaning for the sake of your own purposes, but it does not reflect back on the original comment. Your quip "So it is the Democrats fault we have Trump???" presumably demonstrates that you understand exactly that. After all, if you could have logically projected your interpretation onto the original comment there would have been no need to ask. You'd have already known. Still, how you managed establis…

>>> "It's the White House that wanted Trump to be candidate. They played Republican primary voters"

The original comment did seem to imply that the 'White House' was in control, with a plan, and 'played' the Republicans.

The original comment made the connection that Democrats were taking action. If I'm allowed to assume that when someone makes a comment, that sentences are related. That sentences can follow one another and be related in a context.

And as far as my context viewing the comment. I have heard this idea ::

Trump is doing bad things -> Democrats failed to beat Trump -> Thus Democrats are the cause of bad things.

The original comment seemed to be in that vein. To attribute much greater responsibility to the Democrats for our current situation, instead of the people actually doing the bad things. aka Republicans. They are actually doing the bad things.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#899

Post by renmillar »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #398
renmillar wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason that models too large for consumer hardware wouldn't keep a huge edge, is there?

That is fundamentally a big O question. I have this theory that we simply got over a hump by utilizing a massive processing boost from gpus as opposed to CPUs. That might have been two to three orders of magnitude more processing power. But that's a one-time success. I don't hardware has any large scale improvements coming, because 3D gaming mostly plumb most of that vector processing hardware development in the last…

Could be that you need massive amounts of data from those super expensive production training runs, and it's tough to figure that out from publicly available data and academic computing resources. Maybe the combination of gradual efficiency improvements, bigger compute clusters, and test-time reasoning keeps the cloud models in the lead. Plus, even if it's exponential scaling, wouldn't that still favor the big data centers? That would put local/edge models at a serious disadvantage.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#900

Post by 9rx »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #898
9rx wrote: post #893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can assume a meaning for the sake of your own purposes, but it does not reflect back on the original comment. Your quip "So it is the Democrats fault we have Trump???" presumably demonstrates that you understand exactly that. After all, if you could have logically projected your interpretation onto the original comment there would have been no need to ask. You'd have already known. Still, how you managed establis…

>>> "It's the White House that wanted Trump to be candidate. They played Republican primary voters" The original comment did seem to imply that the 'White House' was in control, with a plan, and 'played' the Republicans. The original comment made the connection that Democrats were taking action. If I'm allowed to assume that when someone makes a comment, that sentences are related. That sentences can follow one anoth…

> The original comment made the connection that Democrats were taking action.

Yes, it claims that the Democrats took action. That does not equate to blaming Democrats.

You could blame the Democrats for what they supposedly did if that's what the randomly firing neurons in your brain conclude is most appropriate in light of the "facts" presented, but blame is just arbitrary thought. It doesn't mean anything and certainly wouldn't have a place in an online discussion.

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