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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#891

Post by mikrotikker »

razemio wrote: post #540
FireBeyond wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like several months ago, “we advise Gazans to move to southern Gaza as operations intensify in the north”. Within days: “Israeli bombing of southern Gaza intensifies 80%”.

I have to say, these warnings are byond any logic I can comprehend. It it not like Hamas does not get these warnings. Obviously they moved aswell. Then again, was this intended by Israel? So in the end nobody can trust these warnings. They are pointless.

Yes I dunno what the term is but it's common to telegraph ops like this. US did the same in Yemen and they see a) civvies moving away from munitions storage areas b) terrorists trying to move munitions to safety. It can inform of new targets

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#892

Post by mikrotikker »

andrepd wrote: post #66
lucubratory wrote: post #2

This isn't ambiguous. This is really clear evidence of (at minimum) an atrocious and continuing war crime with full intentionality. Realistically, it is more likely explicitly genocidal in intent.

The UN Special Rapporteur for the Palestinian Territories has concluded in a pretty comprehensive report that there is a genocide occurring in Gaza. https://reliefweb.int/attachments/f78b0a28-c3af-44ed-a010-9b...

The same UN that supported Hamas in it's war on Israel and persecutions of gazans?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#893

Post by whamlastxmas »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #879

I know it’s an overly simplified view but it’s becoming more and more of a reality, Israel is the 21th century nazi. Yeah it’s not aryan but israelian race that is superior to the Arabians, what’s the difference ? They don’t send them in camp, they just destroy completely their land, demolish and populate with israelian. What’s the difference ? A family without home and earning is as good as dead. There is still some…

Given how small and boundaried the areas of land are where they are forcing migration to under penalty of mass death, it’s not overly dissimilar to the concept of rounding people up into camps

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#894

Post by whamlastxmas »

OhioMan2943 wrote: post #115
niemandhier wrote: post #108

This comment thread is the most civilised online discussion I have seen in a long while about this particular topic, despite people coming from diverse backgrounds and disagreeing. In this sense, hackernews gives me hope that online culture is not lost yet.

It's because realistically hn is an oasis of educated people that has been overlooked by astroturfers and foreign interests (very strongly including the government in this piece), and hasn't expanded its core demographic for profit. This is what the rest of the internet would be like without manipulation. Imagine how much better things would be

There is absolutely astroturfing happening on HN but not anywhere near the massive campaigns all over Reddit that are cumulatively probably millions of posts and comments

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#895

Post by exodust »

bigyabai wrote: post #682
exodust wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "surface patina" Tell that to the victims of gleeful brutality under the guidance of fundamentalist ideology, like that engrained in Islamist governance and extremist militant groups. Your post reads like the come-down from intellectual pill-popping. Your attempt to dilute a serious problem in the world to "patinas" and reduce the problem to imperial vs colonized peoples, sounds like a manifesto from the lawns of a…

> like that engrained in Islamist governance and extremist militant groups. Or that engrained in the joint Israeli/American coup that overthrew Iran's last democratically-elected leader. The one that installed a secret police that tortured and disappeared tens of thousands of citizens under the training of CIA and Mossad operatives: https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/legal-and-political-mag... If you think his comm…

If you need to wind back the clock before any of us were born to achieve a "gotcha", you're doing a disservice to whatever educated audience remains. Your what-aboutism opens a gaping hole where a point should be.

Ideological differences are gigantic valleys between nations in conflict, that's the point.

When one side shouts God's name as they butcher & jihad whoever's in their way who isn't a fanatic like them, the ideological differences can't be mended with "c'mon now". When one side thrives on martyrdom and human rights violations for breakfast, it's not a time to say "maybe we should look at what they're trying to say, are we just not listening?"

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#896

Post by jakelazaroff »

amy214 wrote: post #860
neepi wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like getting involved in political threads but on this I have to. All information presented is mostly unverified testimony printed verbatim by the press from untrustworthy sources on both sides. It's difficult to tell what is fact and what is not. A lot of early reports in this war turned out to be false information and the rush to immediate news notification rather than quality journalism means that the head…

[flagged]

So because Israel has a "long history of humanitarianism", we can dismiss evidence of Israeli war crimes as fictitious hit jobs? And once we've dismissed all evidence of Israeli war crimes, we can conclude that Israel has a "long history of humanitarianism"? Rinse, repeat — do I have that right?

The source is one of the biggest Israeli newspapers, by the way.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#897

Post by KevinMS »

disgus999 wrote: post #799
KevinMS wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who somehow got dozens of gazans to stand behind him cheering and smiling even though they are terrified of being shot any second now

Dozens of people who have all the liberties that could ever be afforded to anyone, along with sufficient resources to resist coercion. "If you want food today, pose for the video." See how easy that was?

> "If you want food today, pose for the video."

anybody who watches that video can clearly see that you are wrong

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#898

Post by int_19h »

amy214 wrote: post #860
neepi wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like getting involved in political threads but on this I have to. All information presented is mostly unverified testimony printed verbatim by the press from untrustworthy sources on both sides. It's difficult to tell what is fact and what is not. A lot of early reports in this war turned out to be false information and the rush to immediate news notification rather than quality journalism means that the head…

[flagged]

Are you also considering Hamas' long history of humanitarianism? I mean, as a government, they do things like welfare...

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#899

Post by wat10000 »

SantalBlush wrote: post #548
barbazoo wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people are manipulated by the media and by their government and by their spiritual leaders.

I sometimes wonder if a section of the public just wants plausible deniability for committing atrocities, and their government is happy to provide that for them.

Pretty much.

It’s not exactly that they consciously want cover to commit atrocities. It’s more that they can’t really conceive of people they don’t identify with as people. They’ll fiercely defend people they know, and they’ll side with people like them, but everyone else is a sort of vague abstract mass.

We see this in the US today with people who support harsh measures against illegal immigrants while they themselves have friends or family who are the targets (or they are themselves). Then they get very confused when their friends or family get arrested and deported, because “illegal immigrants” is this amorphous mass of bad people, not Jose and Clara down the street. You see it with racists who defend themselves with “I’m not racist, I have black friends.”

Such a person doesn’t automatically think ill of the “other,” but it doesn’t take too much to convince them that the “other” is evil and dangerous and must be dealt with harshly.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#900

Post by int_19h »

maeil wrote: post #248
xg15 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

I'm Swedish. Since I was a child, for decades, I was taught and never questioned the idea that Germany had learnt from their history, in the most admirable way. That it was really ingrained into the German culture to never let anything like the holocaust happen again. That the education system there was very good in really making people understand why it happened, what went wrong, and how to make sure there would be…

The German relationship with Israel is very weird, to put it mildly, and I don't mean just the official government position, but the more broad political culture.

To the best of my knowledge, they are the only Western country in which there are far left groups that proactively support Israel specifically wrt what it's doing in Gaza. And by "support" I mean e.g. posters encouraging to drop more bombs on "Hamas Nazis".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Germans_(political_curren...

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