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Getting forked by Microsoft

philiplaine.com

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Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#891

Post by cryptonector »

unsungNovelty wrote: post #348
talkingtab wrote: post #84

My personal thought is that we need a new kind of license: community open source. No corporations, just community. The problem this addresses is not that Microsoft forked this project. The problem is that when a corporation like Microsoft does this, they harm our community[0]. Open source thrives because a bunch of individuals and groups collaborate. Microsoft, is built around the concept of profit for stock owners a…

> My personal thought is that we need a new kind of license: community open source. No corporations, just community. You are going exactly against the OSS philosophy. OSS shouldn't restrict the use of software just because you don't like it. It was created to fight exactly this. This is also why source available BS (like BSL) is against OSS. OSS is literally about being about hacking and changing software to suit you…

> > My personal thought is that we need a new kind of license: community open source. No corporations, just community.

> You are going exactly against the OSS philosophy.

GPL is almost that: community, because if you want to use it in a commercial product you have to make sources available, not to the community but to those who ask for it.

I'm of the opinion that open source is a business tool, and one should use a license that helps one achieve business goals. Those goals can be very personal and about career advancement, or they can be those of a trillion dollar corporation. TFA might benefit from using GPL if they are upset at what MSFT did, or they might work with MSFT to have their work integrated into the original to end the fork, or...

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#892

Post by cryptonector »

spit2wind wrote: post #890
diggan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't use one of the most permissive licenses in existence Does it matter what license you use if they actively ignore the terms in the license you did chose? MIT requires attribution, but they didn't. Why would any other terms be different? You surely could have put "You must license your project the same as the one you forked from" and they still would have ignored it, not sure what the difference would have been…

> MIT requires attribution, but they didn't I'm confused how you and others reach this conclusion. No, it doesn't. The MIT license is one of the shortest free license that exists: Copyright (c) Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the r…

> > MIT requires attribution, but they didn't

> I'm confused how you and others reach this conclusion. No, it doesn't.

| Copyright (c) | | ... | | The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

The copyright notice that must be preserved includes the copyright holders' names, and that is a form of attribution.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#893

Post by Tepix »

saagarjha wrote: post #861
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you understand how laws or courts or legal fees work. Good luck defending yourself against MS's army of lawyers during your court proceedings though! I have no hope that the courts currently (!) agree with this. But let us spread the gospel so that as many people as possible know how Microsoft's "real" stance on copyright is. If a lot of people become aware of this and this truth stays in lots of peop…

If I accidentally pick up your jacket instead of mine and apologize when you point it out this doesn't mean I give you blanket rights to steal my stuff forever. If I keep doing it, then it's probably worth looking into, but you're going to have to bring up evidence of serial abuse for that.

What if someone takes your jacket and removes your name tag and sews his own tag to your jacket though?

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#894

Post by simultsop »

lachie83 wrote: post #722

Hi Philip, I'm Lachlan from the Cloud Native Ecosystem team at Microsoft. Our team works in the cloud native open-source community with a goal of being great open-source collaborators in these projects and communities, and I’m sorry that this happened. We appreciate your leadership and collaboration on Spegel and see your project solving a real challenge for the cloud native community. I wanted to thank you for your…

These practices have been an ongoing matter since 1975.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#896

Post by jeanlucas »

nickelpro wrote: post #670
jeanlucas wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but Microsoft's response to this will actually be a company official position. It's a space to keep watching.

A flash in the pan about a random fork they have on Github with It baffles me that HN has no idea how large organizations work. The boss's boss's boss has no idea what random worker bees are doing.

The way you underestimate how companies deal with potential PR problems tells me all I need to know about your corporate experience.

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#897

Post by renewiltord »

saagarjha wrote: post #864
renewiltord wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think you misunderstand what direction leadership flows in our political system.

If you’ve funded Abu Ghraib (by paying the US government) then you’re criminally culpable. And don’t try the Nuremberg Defense on me: “I was just following orders to pay every April 15”

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#898

Post by spongebobstoes »

mixologic wrote: post #886
lachie83 wrote: post #722

Hi Philip, I'm Lachlan from the Cloud Native Ecosystem team at Microsoft. Our team works in the cloud native open-source community with a goal of being great open-source collaborators in these projects and communities, and I’m sorry that this happened. We appreciate your leadership and collaboration on Spegel and see your project solving a real challenge for the cloud native community. I wanted to thank you for your…

> When you spoke with our engineers about implementing artifact streaming you said it was probably out of scope for Spegel at that time, which made sense. It seems like it would have been a much better strategy to add artifact streaming, submit a pull request and then if the maintainer isn't interested in adding it, proceeding with a fork. "Probably out of scope" sounds like "I dont have time to implement a feature o…

"probably out of scope" sounds like "there would need to be some major refactors and you're the only user who wants it, so I am turning this down for now"

try to assume good faith :)

Re: Getting forked by Microsoft

#900

Post by arkh »

tacker2000 wrote: post #744
lachie83 wrote: post #722

Hi Philip, I'm Lachlan from the Cloud Native Ecosystem team at Microsoft. Our team works in the cloud native open-source community with a goal of being great open-source collaborators in these projects and communities, and I’m sorry that this happened. We appreciate your leadership and collaboration on Spegel and see your project solving a real challenge for the cloud native community. I wanted to thank you for your…

Now that you got caught you are fixing it and writing fancy PR fluff. An org the size of MS should have clear policies and processes of how to handle open source forks like this. Unless we assume “bad faith” here. This is a pretty bad look. I wonder how many other projects are not attributed correctly. Are you checking up on them also or just waiting for the next HN post? That said, the author of Spegel should have u…

> Now that you got caught you are fixing it and writing fancy PR fluff.

Nope, "the revenge of Clippy" is doing the writing.

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