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Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#891

Post by smallmancontrov »

duped wrote: post #857
tavavex wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The squeeze on any content that religious people find 'yucky' is double-pronged in the US - encouraged both by governments and businesses. Paypal, Visa, Mastercard et al are given complete discretion over what transactions they can block, and they have already extensively used this to deprive legal NSFW platforms and creators of their income. So, on one end, state governments are trying to strongarm NSFW services by…

"risk management" is not puritanism - sex work has a different/higher risk profile for PSPs (fraud, chargebacks, etc) and it's easier to say "no" than to come up with a new product to serve customers. An enterprising PM at a PSP or fintech could look at the size of the sex industry, measure the risk of providing payment/banking services to sex workers and businesses and offer them at a premium like any other "niche"…

That's exactly a "think of the children" argument. CSAM moderation was always fairly strict on the big sites -- they knew it was both an existential threat and the route through which puritans such as "duped" here (nice name) would try to attack -- but they really tightened up with the ban on third party content. Now they have a chain of responsibility for every video. So, "duped," if you actually have an example of the problem you claim is rampant, why aren't you acting on it? Why aren't you lighting the fuse on that chain of responsibility? Do you want to promote the abuse of children? Or do you admit to making it up so that you could use it as a pretext for your agenda?

Also: yes, building a government blackmail database is draconian.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#892

Post by jeroenhd »

hellcow wrote: post #38

Since Mozilla removed all mention of not selling my data in a recent PR and seems hellbent on an ad-based future, I've deleted my Firefox account and moved to Librewolf across my devices, and I'll encourage everyone I know to do the same. It's a sad end to my literal decades of support for them.

Does librewolf maintain their own browser engine? I thought it was just a repackaged Firefox fork?

As for your Firefox account, you could consider hosting your own sync server. The documentation for it is of varying quality, but you can keep your data off Mozilla's servers without sacrificing some pretty useful functionality.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#893

Post by giancarlostoro »

burnte wrote: post #834
userbinator wrote: post #151

The other WTF is here: Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy, and you agree that you will not use Firefox to infringe anyone’s rights or violate any applicable laws or regulations. Acceptable Use Policy links to https://www.mozilla.org/about/legal/acceptable-use/ which says "You may not use any of Mozilla’s services to[...]Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that…

Mozilla's management and legal has always been amazing when it comes to unforced errors. These changes are actually pretty normal, but they're also worded more scarily by being more encompassing than they need to be. Mozilla has always sucked when it comes to communicating with the outside world.

They know how to send cake at least

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#894

Post by progval »

jcranmer wrote: post #154
userbinator wrote: post #151

The other WTF is here: Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy, and you agree that you will not use Firefox to infringe anyone’s rights or violate any applicable laws or regulations. Acceptable Use Policy links to https://www.mozilla.org/about/legal/acceptable-use/ which says "You may not use any of Mozilla’s services to[...]Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that…

> It's against the Terms of Use to use Firefox to... watch porn? Firefox isn't a Mozilla service. The Mozilla services are things like account sync, or the review tool they use.

The French translation of the Terms of Use says they apply both to services and products:

> Vous ne pouvez pas utiliser les services et produits de Mozilla dans les buts suivants :

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#895

Post by mhh__ »

burnte wrote: post #834
userbinator wrote: post #151

The other WTF is here: Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy, and you agree that you will not use Firefox to infringe anyone’s rights or violate any applicable laws or regulations. Acceptable Use Policy links to https://www.mozilla.org/about/legal/acceptable-use/ which says "You may not use any of Mozilla’s services to[...]Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that…

Mozilla's management and legal has always been amazing when it comes to unforced errors. These changes are actually pretty normal, but they're also worded more scarily by being more encompassing than they need to be. Mozilla has always sucked when it comes to communicating with the outside world.

A shooting match between AMD and Mozilla would be a good day to be a cobbler

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#896

Post by thot_experiment »

mhh__ wrote: post #895
burnte wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla's management and legal has always been amazing when it comes to unforced errors. These changes are actually pretty normal, but they're also worded more scarily by being more encompassing than they need to be. Mozilla has always sucked when it comes to communicating with the outside world.

A shooting match between AMD and Mozilla would be a good day to be a cobbler

actually the funniest HN comment i've read in years, bravo

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#897

Post by nusl »

crtasm wrote: post #873
nusl wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't delete it. Go to the github diff they reference and check. It's still there. They just removed it from one of the JSON files but people here aren't actually checking facts, they're just jumping on the hate train. See: https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b...

So where is that paragraph found on their website? The relevant section isn't what you linked to - scroll down to the change in structured-data-firefox-faq.html Here is the previous version of the FAQ: https://web.archive.org/web/20250128115051/https://www.mozil... Here it is now: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/faq/ All three statements about not selling your personal data are gone.

Good point. I checked the page it should be on, and the switch has disabled it. I checked also https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/#lawful-bases and it smells like Firefox is selling its users out.

Specially bits like this: "This data may be shared with our advertising partners on a de-identified or aggregated basis."

Apologies for my previous defense of Firefox. I can't find a reason to defend them anymore.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#898

Post by isametry »

knowitnone wrote: post #863
justinclift wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're on macOS, then Kagi's Orion seems good: https://kagi.com/orion It's been working fine for me anyway.

interesting they have resources to build a browser. also interesting (and sad) they focus on Apple and not Windows. Hopefull, they'll port it to Windows and Linux.

Worth mentioning that Orion is fully based on WebKit. Calling it a “Safari wrapper” would be unfair, but it’s also not extremely far from that either.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#899

Post by superq »

karaterobot wrote: post #772
ta1243 wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put that number in perspective, drawing just 1% of that down each year and putting in a bank account earning interest would fund 100 engineers on $500k/year indefinitely.

I get what you're saying, but the reality is that it takes more than engineers to run a browser company. You'd have to find 100 engineers who can double as lawyers, designers, project managers, etc., and handle payroll, and HR, and after those 100 engineers end up doing the job of 300 other people, how much code are they writing? Your point about them appearing to waste money is taken, I'm just pointing out that it's…

It doesn't take more than engineers to maintain an open-source browser, though. Why does it have to be a company at all? Remember Firefox? Firefox was literally just an act-of-love fork from some engineers from a dead acquisition by a dying dot-com era behemoth.

Put another way, does the Linux kernel or the Python language need to be run by a company, or will foundations does these jobs ok?

There are plenty of open source projects that are enormously successful without a single lawyer or project manager in sight.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#900

Post by JamesSwift »

LeChuck wrote: post #352
rdtsc wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s about expectations. In very simple language: people expect Microsoft and Google to track the hell out of them. But Mozilla says they are your friend and respects privacy, but then their actions speak the opposite. A betrayal from a friend is harder to handle than a blow from an enemy.

Mozilla's goals are still much more aligned with my own than any other browser vendor. Not even close. It's not a betrayal, it's a difference of opinion between friends. Edit: If that. I personally think this Terms of Use thing is a storm in a teacup.

Yes, Firefox is the best bad option. But I'm not sure how we dont classify it as a betrayal to remove these statements:

  Does Firefox sell your personal data?
  Nope. Never have, never will. And we protect you from many of the advertisers who do. Firefox products are designed to protect your privacy. That’s a promise.
and

  ...Unlike other companies, we don’t sell access to your data...
While also weaseling your words about your new policy and how its "basically the same thing if you think about it" [1]

[1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/faq/ - "Mozilla doesn’t sell data about you (in the way that most people think about “selling data“), and we don’t buy data about you. Since we strive for transparency, and the LEGAL definition of “sale of data“ is extremely broad in some places, we’ve had to step back from making the definitive statements you know and love. We still put a lot of work into making sure that the data that we share with our partners (which we need to do to make Firefox commercially viable) is stripped of any identifying information, or shared only in the aggregate, or is put through our privacy preserving technologies (like OHTTP).

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