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Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

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Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#891

Post by nickslaughter02 »

dumbledoren wrote: post #766
nickslaughter02 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, EU is NOT "all for privacy". I don't know where this myth comes from but I see it repeated here often. 1. EU is pushing for mandatory on-device scanning of all your messages (chat control). The current proposal includes scanning of all videos and images all the time for all citizens. The proposal started with analyzing all text too. The discussions are happening behind close doors. EU Ombudsman has accused EU com…

Again and again, 'Eu' is not pushing anything like that. A few Euparl MPs backed by those like Ashton Kutcher did. > Eu isnt 'planning' anything like that. Some Euparl MPs backed by people like Ashton Kutcher tried to push a law to spy on all chat apps. Then when the dirty web of American-style regulatory manipulation was exposed, they backed off. It was a proposal for a law by some MPs. Not something 'Eu' did.

How can you say EU isn't planning anything like that when the last meeting to introduce just that was a few weeks ago?

https://www.parlament.gv.at/dokument/XXVIII/EU/9693/imfname_...

Nobody backed off, it's still on the agenda. You are right however that the main lobby comes from US NGOs as exposed by documents coming from EU Commission.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#892

Post by nickslaughter02 »

izacus wrote: post #568
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is blatantly false. The EU has been pushing to pass the Chat Control law for the last 3 years which is even worse because at least in the UK the government would still need to get a warrant for the data they want whereas the EU wants to analyze your chat messages, emails and pictures in real time without cause or need to justify themselves.

The Chat Control law was voted down and it would not apply for UK if they'd still be in EU.

It has been voted down twice now. Guess what? That doesn't mean it's dead. It's being worked on as we speak. The last meeting was just a few weeks ago.

https://www.parlament.gv.at/dokument/XXVIII/EU/9693/imfname_...

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#893

Post by nickslaughter02 »

ben_w wrote: post #49
princetman wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what you’re after * Australia * United States * Singapore * Dubai * Europe (Belgium/Switzerland/Netherlands)

Of the whole list, if the Investigatory Powers Act is what you didn't like, I'd pick Switzerland first, then Belgium/Netherlands. Of course, that assumes you're fluent in the local languages. Hoe goed spreekt u Nederlands? I made a jump to Germany in 2018, and, thanks to learning a new language, have had a front-row seat to how flat the real Dunning Kruger effect really is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dunning–…

> then Belgium/Netherlands

Belgium's EU presidency was pushing for Chat Control (on-device scanning of all your messages). Hungary took over and was pushing for the same. Poland took over and is proposing changes. Denmark has been in favor of the original proposal and is taking over in July 2025.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#894

Post by exe34 »

isaacremuant wrote: post #858
exe34 wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He demands $500bn of rare earth minerals, insists that Ukraine started the war by getting invaded and wants Zelensky to be replaced by a Russian puppet. It's amazing how the US went from the defender of the free world to just another thug.

"defender of the free world" is just so funny to me. I'm sorry to burst your bubble of jingoism and US imperialism excepcionalism.

what do you call US nukes in Europe? that's exactly what it was - Pax Americana, 70 years of peace and prosperity has come to an end for most countries. Now Russia has an ally in their old enemy.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#895

Post by JansjoFromIkea »

vixen99 wrote: post #813
osigurdson wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is going on in the UK? How do they stand for this?

Irrespective of political leanings, a lot of British people are saying this. They stand for it because they have to. It's a government that was voted in by a large margin only six months ago. Disquiet, if that's the word, is pretty much universal and I am not sure we've been quite in this position before. Keir Starmer's decline in approval ratings 'marks the most substantial post-election fall for any British prime m…

By a large margin with their seat count doubling off a 1.6% swing in their favour. The decline in approval ratings should have been entirely predictable to them.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#896

Post by ajb »

marcprux wrote: post #627
nomel wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My assumption is that Google has keys to everything in its kingdom [1]. [1] https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-ci...

> My assumption is that Google has keys to everything in its kingdom If that were true, then their claims to support E2E encrypted backups are simply false, and they would have been subject to warrants to unlock backups, just like Apple had been until they implemented their "Advanced Data Protection" in 2022. Wouldn't there have been be some evidence of that in the past 7 years, either through security research, or t…

It's worth noting that what the security services don't have access to is as secret as what they do have access to. According to the late Ross Anderson, for many years the police were unable to trace calls (or was it internet access?) on one of the major UK mobile networks, because it had been designed without that and in such a way that it was hard to retrofit. This was considered highly confidential, lest all the drug dealers etc switch to that network.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#897

Post by tim333 »

nomel wrote: post #619
marcprux wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you think Google didn't already sign up to this? My understanding is that Android's Google Drive backup has had an E2E encryption option for many years (they blogged about it at https://security.googleblog.com/2018/10/google-and-android-h... ), and that the key is only stored locally in the Titan Security Module. If they are complying with the IPA, wouldn't that mean that they must build a mechanism into Android to…

My assumption is that Google has keys to everything in its kingdom [1]. [1] https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-ci...

I doubt it. Much to my annoyance they moved Google Maps Timeline from their database to an encrypted copy on my phone specifically so if law enforcement asks for the records of where you were at a given time and place they can say dunno, can't tell. If they had the keys it would wreck their legal strategy not to get hassled every time law enforcement are trying to track someone.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#898

Post by wkat4242 »

mtrovo wrote: post #326
nottorp wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have an Android device beside me that regularly asks me to back my device up to the cloud But is that backup encrypted? If it's not, all they need is to access your data. This is about having access to backups that are theoretically encrypted with a key Apple doesn't have? > We're talking about the largest back door I've ever heard of. Doesn't the US have access to all the data of non US citizens whose data is stor…

> Doesn't the US have access to all the data of non US citizens whose data is stored in the US without any oversight? Totally agree. Having this discussion so US centred just makes us miss the forest for the trees. Apart from data owned by US citizens, my impression is that data stored in the US is fair game for three letter agencies, and I really doubt most companies would spend more than five minutes agreeing with…

This is different IMO. When you buy Apple you buy an American product and you know the company is beholden to US law. Snowden has made perfectly clear how much they can be trusted. When you buy it anyway it's an informed choice.

Here a country that has no ties with most of apple's customers is just butting in and claiming access to all of them.

So what's next. Are we also giving access to everyone's data to Russia? Iran?

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#899

Post by jliptzin »

eterm wrote: post #862
kmeisthax wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the politicians want is partial security: something they can crack but criminals can't. That is achievable in physical security, but not in cybersecurity. I have a feeling the politicians already know partial cybersecurity isn't an option, and don't care. Certainly, the intelligence community advising them absolutely does know. We don't even have to be conspiratorial about it: their jobs are easier in the world…

> That is achievable in physical security, but not in cybersecurity This isn't accurate though, and leads us down the path of trying to prevent these bad laws from a technical perspective when we should be fighting the principle of the bad law not just decrying it for being "unworkable". It is possible to construct encryption schemes with a "backdoor key" while still being provably secure against anyone else. This cr…

And what happens when someone in the government inevitably leaks the key either intentionally or because of a hack?

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#900

Post by prmoustache »

bArray wrote: post #106

Too right, it was far more problematic than they ever made out. > The UK government's demand came through a "technical capability notice" under the Investigatory Powers Act (IPA), requiring Apple to create a backdoor that would allow British security officials to access encrypted user data globally. The order would have compromised Apple's Advanced Data Protection feature, which provides end-to-end encryption for iCl…

> What concerns me more is that Apple is the only company audibly making a stand.

Dropping the functionality for a particular market hardly equals to making a stand. Sure they haven't added a backdoor that would give all user's data access to UK icloud user's data so in the end UK residents didn't win anything.

And who knows if they simply have an agreement with US gov to have a backdoor only available to them and not the other govs.

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