How can you possibly have a reliable self-driving car without LIDAR?
Returning to this post in 5 years when FSD has been solved with just vision.
US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
891–900 of 1001 posts
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#892Each version has improved. FSD is realistically the hardest thing humanity as ever tried to do. It involves an enormous amount of manpower, compute power and human discoveries, and has to work right in billions of scenarios. Building a self flying plane is comically easy by comparison. Building Starship is easier by comparison.
Ah ok, first it is possible within 2 years, and now it is humanity's hardest problem? If it's really that hard I think we better put our resources into something more useful, like new energy solutions, seems we have an energy crisis.
It's the hardest thing humans have ever tried to do yes. It took less time to go to the moon.
There are tons of companies and governments working on energy solutions, there is ample time for Tesla to work on self driving.
Also, do we really have an energy crisis? Are you experiencing rolling blackouts?
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#893Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah. Few people realize how dumb aircraft autopilots really are. Even the fanciest ones just follow a series of waypoints. There is one exception - Garmin Safe Return. That's strictly an emergency system. If it activates, the plane is squawking emergency to ATC and and demanding that airspace and a runway be cleared for it.[1] This has been available since 2019 and does not seem to have yet been activated in an emerge…
It does do that and it's pretty neat, if you have one of the very few modern turboprops or small jets that have G3000s & auto throttle to support it. Airliners don't have this, but they have a 2nd pilot. A real-world activation needs a single-pilot operation where they're incapacitated, in one of the maybe few hundred nice-but-not-too-nice private planes it's equipped in, and a passenger is there to push it. But this…
> and a passenger is there to push it.
I think it will also activate if the pilot is unconscious, for solo flights. It has something like a driver alertness detection system that will alarm if the pilot does nothing for too long. The pilot can reset the alarm, but if they do nothing, the auto return system takes over and lands the plane someplace.
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#894Earlier quoted context omitted.
It goes kinda dsytopic if access to the network becomes a monopolistic barrier.
Not to mention the possibility of requiring pedestrians and cyclists to also be connected to the same network. Anyone with access to the automotive network could track any pedestrian who passes by the vicinity of a road.
It's hard to think of a good blend of traffic safety, privacy guarantees, and resistance to bad-actors. Having/avoiding persistent identification is certainly a factor.
Perhaps one approach would be to declare that automated systems are responsible for determining the position/speed of everything around them using regular sensors, but may elect to take hints from anonymous "notice me" marks or beacons.
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#895Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Lots of people are asking how good the self driving has to be before we tolerate it. There’s a simple answer to this. As soon as it’s good enough for Tesla to accept liability for accidents. Until then if Tesla doesn’t trust it, why should I?
Note that Mercedes does take liability for accidents with their (very limited level) level 3 system: https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/27/23892154/mercedes-benz-dr...
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#896Earlier quoted context omitted.
Note that Mercedes does take liability for accidents with their (very limited level) level 3 system: https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/27/23892154/mercedes-benz-dr...
its pathetic. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-vs-Mercedes-self-driving...
The Mercedes system is definitely, as I said, very limited. But within it's operating conditions the Mercedes system is much more useful: you can safely and legally read, work, or watch a movie while in the driver's seat, literally not paying any attention to the road.
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#897Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That car is signaling an intention to merge into your lane once it is safe for them to do so. Only under the assumption that the driver was trained in the US, to follow US traffic law, and is following that training. For example, in the EU, you switch on the indicators when you start the merge; the indicator shows that you ARE moving.
That seems odd to the point of uselessness, and does not match the required training I received in Germany from my work colleagues at Daimler prior to being able to sign out company cars. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/__9.html seems to be the relevant law in Germany, which Google translates to "(1) Anyone wishing to turn must announce this clearly and in good time; direction indicators must be used."
Maybe the guy was talking about the reality, not the theory. From my autobahn travels it seems like the Germans don't know how to turn on the blinkers.
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#898Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>If autopilot is 10x safer then preventing its use would lead to more preventable deaths and injuries than allowing it. And yet whenever there is a problem with any plane autopilot it's preemptively disabled fleet wide and pilots have to fly manually even though we absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt know that it's less safe. If an automated system makes a wrong decision and it contributes to harm/death then it ca…
So your only concern is, when something goes wrong, need someone to blame. Who cares about lives saved. Vaccines can cause adverse effects. Let's ban all of them. If people like you were in charge of anything, we'd still be hitting rocks for fire in caves.
Ok, consider this for a second. You're a director of a hospital that owns a Therac radiotherapy machine for treating cancer. The machine is without any shadow of a doubt saving lives. People without access to it would die or have their prognosis worsen. Yet one day you get a report saying that the machine might sometimes, extremely rarely, accidentally deliver a lethal dose of radiation instead of the therapeutic one.
Do you decide to keep using the machine, or do you order it turned off until that defect can be fixed? Why yes or why not? Why does the same argument apply/not apply in the discussion about self driving cars?
(And in case you haven't heard about it - the Therac radiotherapy machine fault was a real thing, it's being used as a cautionary tell for software development but I sometimes wonder if it should be used in philosophy classes too)
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#899As I come over the top of a crest, there was suddenly a lot of sun glare and the my Model Y violently swerved to the left, fortunately I had just overtaken a car on a two lane, dual carriageway and hadn't moved back to the left hand lane yet. The driver I had just overtaken, although he wasn't very close anymore slowed right down to get away from me and I didn't blame him. That manoeuvre in another car likely would h…
what do you mean you can only use fsd on motorways? Just by phrasing I assume you’re referring to the old FSD which is just beefed up autopilot based on heuristics - europe is stuck on a gimped 5 year old autopilot stack due to overzealous regulation.
American FSD is a completely different beast, usable on every road and street, so your anecdote is actually not relevant to the thread
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#900As I come over the top of a crest, there was suddenly a lot of sun glare and the my Model Y violently swerved to the left, fortunately I had just overtaken a car on a two lane, dual carriageway and hadn't moved back to the left hand lane yet. The driver I had just overtaken, although he wasn't very close anymore slowed right down to get away from me and I didn't blame him. That manoeuvre in another car likely would h…
The underlying problem is that the current FSD architecture doesn't seem to have good guard rails for these outlier situations you describe (sunlight blinding the camera from just the right angle probably?) and it is probably not possible to add such rules without limiting the system enormously. Fundamentally driving consists of a set of fairly clear cut rules with a ridiculous amount of "it depends" cases.
it actually does. he’s in europe, on a 5 year old autopilot, basically.
current fsd uses a multiexposure camera feed so its not really much susceptible to sun glare.