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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#891

Post by wolverine876 »

reducesuffering wrote: post #638
wolverine876 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hamas is notorious for colocating themselves among civilians. I despise Hamas, but this claim is disingenuous propaganda (by the leaders who make it, not the parent who repeats it): First, Hamas is 'notorious' for it because it's endlessly repeated by their enemies. That rhetoric doesn't make anything true. (Haven't we had the Internet long enough that people know it well by now?) Second, Hamas is an assymetric, ir…

> Hamas is notorious for colocating themselves among civilians. > this claim is disingenuous propaganda > Hamas is an assymetric, irregular force, and assymetric forces cannot operate bases or fight open battles anywhere; they all must blend in with civilians Are you listening to yourself here? Pure cognitive dissonance

I apparently was unclear in my GP comment, because both you and someone else had the same response. See here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39626896

Still, you got it wrong: It wasn't cognitive dissonance, but miscommunication. I'm not trying to score a point; I'm trying to say that jumping to conclusions - despite it's popularity these days - often yields wrongness, and we all are especially prone to it when we are emotionally charged. Curiosity, as a policy and rule, is an effective prophylactic against screwing yourself. :)

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#892

Post by shiroiushi »

GordonS wrote: post #523
shiroiushi wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We actually have very clear examples from history of how to turn an enemy into a friend: the Marshall plan Japan, Germany, and Italy's people didn't practice a religion that required them to hate Americans. For Germany and Italy in particular, they followed (basically) the same religion as most Americans. Japan never really had much religion. And none of these WWII powers were theocratic states in any way, or govern…

> Japan, Germany, and Italy's people didn't practice a religion that required them to hate Americans. I'm not sure if you're equating Islam with hatred of the USA, or if you mean because so many Israelis believe Palestinians are "amalek", no better than bugs? > Allies completely flattened major cities and killed millions of civilians, intentionally And out of these horrors came international agreement on what actions…

>I'm not sure if you're equating Islam with hatred of the USA

I don't know where people are getting this. I'm equating Islam and Judaism with hatred of each other. It's what religions do. We have two effective countries, each one basically a theocracy (less so on the Israeli side, but the fact is, it was founded to be a Jewish state), and their religions are incompatible.

>And out of these horrors came international agreement on what actions are allowed during wartime, with the aim of ensuring such atrocities weren't repeated.

Sure, and the nation-building successes that came after those horrors have never been repeated.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#893

Post by shiroiushi »

hef19898 wrote: post #498
shiroiushi wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was started by the guy who murdered Archduke Ferdinand.

That was WW1, and even then it was Austria-Hungary's reaction to it, backed by Germany in combination with the political climate that started it.

>That was WW1

No, that was "the great war" that started with what's called "WWI" by many and ended with what's called "WWII". Basically, one big war with a really long intermission.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#894

Post by fullspectrumdev »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #711
fullspectrumdev wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s still dissident republican and loyalist groups getting up to bullshit criminality and committing attacks on the regular. The PIRA may have disbanded, but there are still active splinter groups.

I mean, they're basically gangs now, rather than terrorists. I remember growing up in the 80s/90s in the south and every single weekend there was either bombings or killings. That's almost entirely ended now.

It’s not as bad as it was, and yes they are mostly drugs gangs now, but it’s still unacceptable levels of useless violence.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#895

Post by throwawayhate »

ciconia wrote: post #25

> Around 10% of Gaza's journalists have been killed versus 2.5% of healthcare workers. One possible explanation is that journalists have a much higher probability of being close to where the fighting is, than healthcare workers.

OP: This is a meaningful rabbit hole to explore.

The rate of journalists murdered in Gaza is much higher than other similar situations.

The Geneva convention requires citizens and journalists to not be targeted. [1]

Human Rights Watch [2] and Amnesty International [3] are reporting journalists are actively being targeted. Today, someone's phone can be tracked to target them.

The LA Times also had a piece outlining the journalists experiences [4]

[1] https://safety.rsf.org/appendix-i-protection-of-journalists-...

[2] https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-israeli-strikes-on-journa...

[3] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/12/lebanon-deadl...

[4] https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-12-21/gaza-journa...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#896

Post by throwawayhate »

alexvoda wrote: post #116
McNutty wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. This platform for tech news should not become a place for political posts, nor even for posting regular news headlines. Yes we know that reddit sucks but stop trying to make hn into reddit. Also the community can't handle it, just look at the handful of comments we already have here.

I believe it is impossible to disentangle non-politics (tech included) from politics because that in itself is a political stance.

It took me a while to understand that "not being into politics" or "a political" is still a form of politics.

Also, there is very little politics practiced without technology, so it can be harder to make it inextricable.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#897

Post by jncfhnb »

GordonS wrote: post #745
jncfhnb wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearing operations have largely been bulldozers, not leveling an area with bombs. Yes, it does suck for the civilians. Yes there is immense collateral damage. What would you do differently when you know terrorists funded by a hostile third party have an extensive tunnel network though? I’m sorry but you cannot allow it to exist. You have to destroy it. There exact purposes of the hospital lairs used by Hamas are unc…

> What would you do differently Not knowingly massacre civilians? If they supposedly have 10 million miles of tunnels (or whatever the IDF claims), then the very idea of taking out tunnels is pointless anyway. Hamas aren't some random terrorists, they are a resistance to occupation with a clear goal - if I was Israel, I would respect international law, remove myself from occupied territories, and recognise an indepen…

Ok great, so you’re going to roll over while Iran increases military pressure into your borders and you’re just asking the same question from a weaker position a few years later.

You cannot frame this conflict merely Israel and poor Palestine. Because look, I agree, Israel’s treatment of Palestine is dogshit. But you cannot achieve a peaceful outcome while Iran is right there as a militaristic hostile nation that condones funding terrorism.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#898

Post by tehjoker »

hersko wrote: post #152
tehjoker wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, you can watch this documentary where journalists wearing identifying gear away from the action were shot by a sniper during the peaceful "March of Return" (2018). These were the "Palestinian Gandhis" Israel supporters keep talking about. They were massacred. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZSaKYmP2s

> peaceful "March of Return" How is trying to storm a sovereign border peaceful? Pretty sure if a mob stormed any normal government border they would be shot.

The marchers had a legal right of return under international law and the sympathies of the world (except US and Israel).

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#899

Post by exodust »

tptacek wrote: post #886
incognos wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The rape allegations have not been debunked. The UN Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict just yesterday announced convincing evidence not just of organized sexual violence on October 7th, but of sexual violence against the hostages themselves, including evidence that such abuse is ongoing. It's been a Twitter talking point for the last 2 weeks that the rape accusations are hoaxes; some of that is the…

> "The comment you were replying to was dismissive and uncivil"

Fascinating. The person you replied to unleashed a barrage of toxic misinformation, including absurd claims about nobody being tortured on Oct7, and that Israel killed the music festival attendees, among other propaganda nuggets.

They also frame Oct7 as a strategic positive, based on the "killing" of normalized relations between Israel and Arab countries. You replied to a pro-Hamas supporter, basically. I don't want to debate it now, but you were doing well countering the misinformation about the rape allegations, and about "debunking" in general. Then you added an unnecessary evaluation of my post.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#900

Post by hef19898 »

shiroiushi wrote: post #893
hef19898 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was WW1, and even then it was Austria-Hungary's reaction to it, backed by Germany in combination with the political climate that started it.

>That was WW1 No, that was "the great war" that started with what's called "WWI" by many and ended with what's called "WWII". Basically, one big war with a really long intermission.

Ah, you are one of the people seeing WW1 and 2 as the new 30 years war. Ok. Still wrong saying tze assination started WW2, and oversimolyfied saying it started WW1.

Worth pointing out that your view is still not mainstream.

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