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Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

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Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#891

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People made fun of SF, then it spread to the broader Bay Area, then LA, then other parts of the country. Turns out the effects of income inequality and how it impacts housing are rippling through the US. These aren't automatic, though. Who's to say they aren't produced by policy that's often done first in SF first?

The policy is usually in response to the problems, not vice versa. California is actually dysfunctionally democratic (with a small "d", not "Democratic"). The state constitution gives ballot initiatives powers that they don't have in many other states, and the state has a tradition of individual rights and political activism that means the citizenry isn't shy about using that. A lot of people in the rest of the count…

California is also dysfunctionally Democratic (big "D") in that all elected state level offices have gone to Democrats for the last several election cycles. Because the Republican Party has imploded and third parties have failed to gain traction we now live in a single party state. Politicians are selected by Democratic Party leaders and are no longer accountable to voters in any meaningful way.

This problem isn't particular to the Democratic Party. Other states now have single party Republican governments with similar levels of dysfunction and corruption.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#892

Anecdata: I am 31 and have 3 young kids. They have 0 cousins and, on top of that, 0... second cousins? Cousins-once-removed? Whatever the one is for my cousin's kids. My kids are my grandma's only great-grandkids. And I have... 6 cousins. On top of that, at my last job, on my team of 15, I was the only one with kids, and only 1 of those 15 engineers were under the age of 30. At my current job, my team is 8, and again…

>Whatever the one is for my cousin's kids. Cousins once removed. Second cousins are your parent's cousins. And your cousin situation sounds a lot like mine and my children - not a lot of cousins happening.

This is incorrect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin

If two people have the same grandparents, then they are cousins. If they have the same great grandparents, then they are second cousins. atomicnumber3 was referring to what atomicnumber3's kids would call atomicnumber3's cousin's kids.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolution has equipped us with a pretty generous frontal cortex so we have a sort of escape hatch to reflect and decide on whether to act on our biological imperatives. Reduction of human beings to 'biological organisms' as if we're humping rabbits is no less weird.

A fire has no cortex whatsoever, and yet if fire did not continue doing what fire does in order to stay fire - turn things that are "not fire" into itself- it would cease to exist altogether. That's all there is to it. There is no big picture. edit: I expected apathy at best from a comment this deep in a thread. Now, granted, HN does not stand for Hard Nihilism, but four downvotes with zero explanations in under an h…

> That's all there is to it. There is no big picture.

Even if it is correct (which you haven’t tried to support, just claiming that you know best), how is it relevant? If there’s no bigger picture then what’s wrong with going extinct which should push us to procreate? The comparison to fire - the human population is the highest it’s ever been and still increasing so it doesn’t seem like we are “going out“, and if that was happening the collapse of civilisation would lead to the loss of the ability to mass manufacture birth control and loss of the medical systems supporting them at some point, and the population would go up again after that, wouldn’t it? Fire runs out of fuel, but human food grows on trees - less humans leads to more ecosystem regeneration which could support more humans.

> "an incurious hostility toward the view that people (myself included) are, like fire, essentially just echoes of thermodynamics."

I thought we were “just“ hydraulic systems? Just LLMs? Just clockwork? Humans are just {recent scientific discovery of the era} is an interesting view on its own but is it relevant to the thread? "We are just thermodynamic systems ... so we should reproduce"?

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#894
Another data point: My wife's grandparents have 10 children, 81 grandchildren (mostly adults), and around 300 and counting great-grandchildren. It's wonderful! When we go on trips around the U.S., we are almost always staying with a cousin. Our children really enjoy meeting and getting to know cousins their age. That said, I do notice that the younger generations typically are having smaller families (like 3-6 children instead of 8-12 children).

It's a lot of work to keep in touch and visit cousins, but my wife and I feel it's totally worth it. At times, we've decided where to live based on proximity to cousins, and we decided early on to regularly visit cousins who lived within a couple of hours. When we were married, we decided we'd try to go to reunions, funerals, and weddings, and we've largely done that for the last 19 years. There is a big family reunion for a few days every other year, with about half the family coming (so hundreds of people of all ages). We also have monthly dinners with typically 20-30 local cousins joining. We regularly tell family history stories, and we have a screensaver rotating through our pictures, including many from cousin visits and reunions, so cousins are regularly coming up in daily conversations.

One thing I've noticed is that the more often we go to reunions and visit other families, the more excited the children are to go to see cousins again (as opposed to another family branch, where reunions are every 5-10 years, the children just don't have the same connection with that much growing up in between reunions). Another thing I've noticed is that our children seem to feel very grounded in their experiences - they often are relating their experiences to a story from an ancestor and pulling lessons from that.

To address a comment elsewhere on this topic, yes, we are religious, the family is predominantly active members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and a significant portion live in the intermountain west area of the U.S.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to be religious, right? This is the dream for us. We reverted to Catholicism after it became apparent that the secular world was incompatible with us, then eventually found our way to a high fertility parish. It’s incredible. Kids everywhere. Average family size is 5-6 kids. Really hoping our kids choose to remain in this lifestyle and we get to enjoy dozens of grandkids.

Err, yeah I'm a little skeptical of parents who want lots of children. I'm in my twenties now, but I was raised Catholic, I have twelve siblings, and I was homeschooled until my senior year. There were several issues: - Me and my siblings all feel like our parents loved the "identity" of being parents and having lots of children, but when it came down to the brass tax of actually caring for our emotional needs, they…

According to the sociological data, the same happens in smaller families, but the support structure is worse, so people are worse off. Life is challenging!

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#896

Another data point: My wife's grandparents have 10 children, 81 grandchildren (mostly adults), and around 300 and counting great-grandchildren. It's wonderful! When we go on trips around the U.S., we are almost always staying with a cousin. Our children really enjoy meeting and getting to know cousins their age. That said, I do notice that the younger generations typically are having smaller families (like 3-6 childr…

> we are religious, the family is predominantly active members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and a significant portion live in the intermountain west area of the U.S.

Everybody in America would know to fill in all that information if you simply said "We are Mormon".

I'm glad you're enjoying your rich family!

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#897
post #158

Anecdata: I am 31 and have 3 young kids. They have 0 cousins and, on top of that, 0... second cousins? Cousins-once-removed? Whatever the one is for my cousin's kids. My kids are my grandma's only great-grandkids. And I have... 6 cousins. On top of that, at my last job, on my team of 15, I was the only one with kids, and only 1 of those 15 engineers were under the age of 30. At my current job, my team is 8, and again…

I've been doing this math frequently of late. I'm 35, have one child and of my high school class ... maybe 25% have children? there is certainly a bias from polling social media. But the anecdata would say that we're closing on the point where millenials have chosen to simply not have children.

> But the anecdata would say that we're closing on the point where millenials have chosen to simply not have children.

I'd bet that that isn't a "choice" so much as it is that millennials are prevented by their circumstances from having the children they'd want to otherwise. If more people could actually afford to have kids and were more optimistic about the future I imagine we'd have a lot more babies around

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#898

Anecdata: I am 31 and have 3 young kids. They have 0 cousins and, on top of that, 0... second cousins? Cousins-once-removed? Whatever the one is for my cousin's kids. My kids are my grandma's only great-grandkids. And I have... 6 cousins. On top of that, at my last job, on my team of 15, I was the only one with kids, and only 1 of those 15 engineers were under the age of 30. At my current job, my team is 8, and again…

I had the same experience working for SF bay area tech companies, mid-size teams of high income 30 year olds and only a few people had kids.

Got a job with a company in the midwest, complete opposite. Almost everyone on my team has kids. That might suggest a lower cost of living is correlated with kids, but I think it is more of a cultural thing.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#899

Why are people so obsessed about it I have children? I'm married and we've decided we don't want to have kids. It really bothers me when people say "oh you're missing out, that's such a shame". Please think about what you are saying. It doesn't matter if I'm gay, infertile, poor, depressed, or just don't want them. Please keep your judgements to yourself or even just stop judging others.

I have kids and I actively tell people not to have kids if you don't really really really want them. It's not a pleasant experience most of the time. You do you. I'm not judging you at all.

I was listening to a professional rock climber talk about having kids. He described it as objectively bad, but the chemicals nature was pumping him full of were making him love his kids and be unable to picture life without them.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#900
post #504
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While evolution might be a stretch here, this definitely is natural selection, just not as obvious as in other species. The number of infants globally peaked around 2014-2017 and most of the future population growth will be due to larger generations replacing smaller ones. The decline in population already started, but we're not seeing it thanks to how long we live.

That absolutely is not natural selection at all. Natural selection is the result of a random process. People deciding to have or not have kids is a conscious decision based on their life experiences. Put another way, someone choosing to have kids isn't necessarily changing the balance between the child-bearing and child-free population in the world. If we could freeze the conditions that cause people to not want kids…

"Natural selection is the result of a random process."

This is an outdated view...

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