Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

891–900 of 903 posts

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#891

Post by lovelyviking »

drawkward wrote: post #842
lovelyviking wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you as well describe and remind us how logo of PLO looks today ? You can find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organizat...

The argument at hand is whether or not the phrase "from the river to the sea" is a de facto statement of support for Jewish genocide. What is your point?

> What is your point?

To add essential information to yours when you’ve brought Likud and B.Netaniahu and forgot to mention M. Abbas leader of PLO with logo clearly showing map “from the river to the sea” without any place for Israel on it.

Perhaps you can state your point clearly now with this information because your point wasn’t clear at all.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#892

Post by lovelyviking »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #847
lovelyviking wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you as well describe and remind us how logo of PLO looks today ? You can find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organizat...

The PLO officially recognized the state of Israel over 30 years ago, and its goal is to establish a Palestinian state only in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip. This is in contrast to Israel, which has never officially recognized a Palestinian right to self-determination.

>The PLO officially recognized the state of Israel over 30 years ago.

Any document to support this claim? Certainly their logo has not changed.

I know it’s hard to change the logo but I during 30 years it should be possible if it is no longer serving their goal.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#893

Post by lovelyviking »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #845
lovelyviking wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The irony of banning the phrase, "From the river to the sea" … The irony is to talk about the irony without realising the extreme nature of the phrase “From the river to the sea…” for any of the sides. Someone can as easily adapt the same phrase for calls to remove non-jewish population from the land yet the commentator felt the urge to see the irony in “banning the phrase” (as he put it) without thinking through th…

> Even this one post from only one school speaks about variety of maps presented to children but commentator simply ignores that. Almost every map in that Quora answer shows Israel extending from the river to the sea, and shows the Palestinian territories as belonging to Israel. > Commentator takes 1 of 10 maps posted there. As I said, almost every map in that post shows roughly the same thing. There was actually a d…

> As I said, almost every map in that post shows roughly the same thing.

I do not know how maps from 1922, 1947,1949, 1967 and 2008 with completely different borders are showing “roughly the same thing” for you. (https://www.quora.com/What-borders-does-Israel-show-in-maps-...)

If you refer only to the maps for 2nd and 3rd grades I can assure you that many things in 2nd and 3rd grade appear as “roughly the same thing” and it’s only with further education you begin to notice certain nuances. At this point I believe I should strongly recommend to use maps for more grown up children to make your point.

>You're making a big deal about the PLO logo…

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Plo_emblem.pn...) The official PLO logo clearly suggests no Israel existence.

You’ve brought map to make your point (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38755727) and now you are suddenly dismissal about the map on official PLO logo and then you’ve tried to portrait me as making “a big deal” about it. Another trick to register and unfortunately such tricks and manipulative efforts are common trends in every supporter of “from the river to the sea” chant that I’ve seen. I wander what purpose they are trying to achieve by misleading others and what they are trying to hide under the “nice” words.

You were also completely dismissive about extreme and dangerous nature of the phrase “from the river to the sea” for both sides. You also completely skipped the fact of Israel withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 even after I have pointed to those two main points.

I am making a big deal of you making misleading comments and using manipulative techniques to distort the reality and hide the truth to push certain agenda without thinking through the consequences of your actions (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38589935) and your conscious or unconscious contribution to spreading propaganda beneficial to Hamas which leads to the loss of life on both sides. This is a moral blindness at best and intentional malevolent effort at worst.

> There was actually a dispute … It's standard in Israel …

Sources and facts are required to support such claims. After your manipulative approach with maps it’s difficult to trust the ‘stories’ you spread.

>The PLO recognizes the state of Israel.

Their logo doesn’t reflect it. Documents and factually proven persistent behaviour that is in accordance with such claim are required.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#894

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

lovelyviking wrote: post #892
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PLO officially recognized the state of Israel over 30 years ago, and its goal is to establish a Palestinian state only in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip. This is in contrast to Israel, which has never officially recognized a Palestinian right to self-determination.

>The PLO officially recognized the state of Israel over 30 years ago. Any document to support this claim? Certainly their logo has not changed. I know it’s hard to change the logo but I during 30 years it should be possible if it is no longer serving their goal.

Yasser Arafat's letter to Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin of 9 September 1993:

> Mr. Prime Minister,

> The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments:

> The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security. The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

> The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations.

> The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability. Accordingly, the PLO renounces the use of terrorism and other acts of violence and will assume responsibility over all PLO elements and personnel in order to assure their compliance, prevent violations and discipline violators.

> In view of the promise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.

> Sincerely,

> Yasser Arafat, Chairman, The Palestine Liberation Organization

This is a very famous letter, by the way. It was sent at the beginning of the Oslo peace process, which was supposed to lead to a complete Israeli withdrawal from the occupied Palestinian territories within a matter of a few years. 30 years later, Israel still occupies the Palestinian territories (and has actually massively expanded its settlements inside those territories), and still has not recognized the Palestinians' right to a sovereign state.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#895

Post by tptacek »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #894
lovelyviking wrote: post #892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The PLO officially recognized the state of Israel over 30 years ago. Any document to support this claim? Certainly their logo has not changed. I know it’s hard to change the logo but I during 30 years it should be possible if it is no longer serving their goal.

Yasser Arafat's letter to Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin of 9 September 1993: > Mr. Prime Minister, > The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments: > The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security. The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council…

Couple things happened between Oslo and this year, didn't they?

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#896

Post by cvalka »

nradov wrote: post #370
ThinkBeat wrote: post #317

This is something people have to relearn over and over again. A lot of the people who are not upset with Meta limiting opinions and content related to the war in Gaza¹. Were gloating and happy when Meta limited opinions and content from right wing politicians² not so long ago. Once you invite censorship for content you dont like, how can you expect it wont bite you in the ass later on. This is why freedom of speech i…

I agree with Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas that Congress should consider extending common carrier rules to large social media platforms and force them to carry all legal content. This would in a sense be a form of "compelled speech" in that those companies would have to expend resources to distribute communicates that their management finds objectionable, but at scale the marginal costs would be virtually zer…

Unworkable. Relevancy neutrality is unworkable. Think his idea through. Justice Thomas is not an independent thinker. Justice Scalia was an independent thinker, justice Thomas is malleable by the conservative Zeitgeist. Please take his ideas with a grain of salt.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#897

Post by Chris2048 »

riku_iki wrote: post #137
za3faran wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel deliberately cut off power, water, and all crossings into Gaza for delivering food and aid. Even worse than what Russia did to the power plants. Literal collective punishment, another war crime to add to their list.

Israel cut power and water they provided before to the territory which attacked them. Sounds like many countries did such thing in the past.

> Sounds like many countries did such thing in the past.

Can you give a good, relevant example?

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#898

Post by riku_iki »

Chris2048 wrote: post #897
riku_iki wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel cut power and water they provided before to the territory which attacked them. Sounds like many countries did such thing in the past.

> Sounds like many countries did such thing in the past. Can you give a good, relevant example?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_over_Water_(Jordan_River)

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#899

Post by lovelyviking »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #840
lovelyviking wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you as well describe us how logo of PLO looks today ? You can find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organizat ...

It apparently does include the map of Palestine pre-Israel. This makes sense, in the very same way as the current Palestine protesters' slogan 'from the river to the sea', it's a reaction to the illegal settlement (which still has the same slogan based on their religion) and expresses the desire for liberation. From the original 1977 manifesto of the current Likud party[1]: > The right of the Jewish people to the lan…

> It apparently does include the map of Palestine pre-Israel. This makes sense, in the very same way as the current Palestine protesters' slogan 'from the river to the sea'…

Makes sense ? Well, there is some problem with the sense of it. PLO (and supposedly it’s logo) was created in 1964 when Israel pretty much existed. But of course it makes sense if you wish the destruction of Israel and jewish population of it …same way as the current slogan 'from the river to the sea'.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#900

Post by lovelyviking »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #894
lovelyviking wrote: post #892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The PLO officially recognized the state of Israel over 30 years ago. Any document to support this claim? Certainly their logo has not changed. I know it’s hard to change the logo but I during 30 years it should be possible if it is no longer serving their goal.

Yasser Arafat's letter to Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin of 9 September 1993: > Mr. Prime Minister, > The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments: > The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security. The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council…

> Yasser Arafat's letter…

Very good, now you can make your point about your dismissal of the real map in the real logo of the real PLO which shows no place for Israel while you have brought some school map as argument in the first place portraying it as ‘typical map’ which turned out to be map for children of 2nd and 3rd grades from one book and was 1 of 10 maps in some post in quora that clearly stating that children are exposed to variety of maps according to their age (https://www.quora.com/What-borders-does-Israel-show-in-maps-...).

to avoid duplicating it’s summarised here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38831687

Post reply on HN