The pro-Israel information war • Hacker News Board

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#891

Post by brailsafe » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 8:42 AM UTC

sertbdfgbnfgsd wrote: post #400

digging wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've specifically isolated yourself from people who would talk about the issue, so you're not in a position to determine whether or not people have been talking about it. In my social circles, the conversation about injustice in Palestine is over a decade old.

> In my social circles, the conversation about injustice in Palestine is over a decade old. Indeed, I would say that anyone older than 10 has participated in such conversations. The person you're responding to makes it sound like it's a new thing.

It's clearly not a new thing, and it's clearly something that people should have likely been vaguely aware of for decades, but it's not really important for anyone not directly connected to the conflict, territory, or heritage to be actively concerned with on a moment to moment basis, and it's not something that's ever organically come up, at least beyond acknowledgement that some conflict is always happening. That's not to say it hasn't come up in any circle, but it does seem to be a suspiciously recent topic, and I'd simply argue that people tend to subject themselves to arbitrary issues to be consumed by regardless of the bearing it has their life, and largely influenced by media.

When I had the conversation about it in real life, I expressed sympathy and discussed a few aspects that they informed me of since I hadn't heard about the instigating attack, and then I went on about my life, thankful that my family and nobody I know personally is on either side.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#892

Post by Der_Einzige » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 8:48 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #667

YZF wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas has been an assset for the Israeli right because it helps prevent a two state solution. The goal is really to weaken the Palestinian Authority. In recent years most of Hamas' crimes were against Palestinians and nobody cared. Forcing this dichotomy today is certainly a strategy but I don't think that was really a strategy pre-Oct 7th. I.e. I don't recall ever Israel trying to justify settler violence against Pa…

> Jews and Arabs living side by side in the same country as equal citizens. Except that Israel has Arabs already, living side by side with the Jews there. Palestinians have rejected that.

Arabs in isreal are treated worse than black people in America are treated.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#893

Post by skininthegame » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 8:52 AM UTC

goalonetwo wrote: post #465

Coming from Europe and living in the US for the last couple of years, I'm shocked at how society here is clearly pro-israel. It is very clear that in the US the life of an israel citizen is valued way above the one of a palestinian. It is sad to lose that level of humanity. all of the discourse also conveniently ignores that Israel created a large-scale open-air prison in Gaza and removed any hope left for people liv…

[dead]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#894

Post by edanm » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 8:53 AM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #569

meowface wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't support how civilians are being treated in Palestine whatsoever, but: >while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) When has Likud ordered massacres of civilians? Or when has any modern Israeli party? I also don't believe Likud is considered far-right in Israel; just "right". There are parties far to the right of them. Not that that's necessarily a good th…

Here is a long list of Israeli politicians and military officers who have declared their intent to massacre civilians: - Israeli Prime Minister (!!) Benjamin Netanyahu: "You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember." [1] - IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari: "we're focused on what causes maximum damage" [2] - Israeli defense Minister Yoav Gallant: "I have ordered a complete siege on…

Look, I'm not going to go over that last one by one, but a bunch of those are taken out of context, e.g. speaking specifically about Hamas but being presented as being about civilians.

Some of those statements are also reprehnsible and are should be and are rightly condemned, within Israel as well.

But do you have a similar list of all the statements that Israeli officials have made that go against these? Because there are far more of those, they just don't make it into circulation like these. There are many, many on the record statements of Israeli officials specifically saying that the war will be conducted justly, morally, while trying to minimize civilian casualties.

You can choose to dismiss those as "well they have to say it to please the world", and insist that these statements you've linked are the only ones that matter, but then you're just choosing what to believe based on your own prior beliefs going into this.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#895

Post by edanm » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 8:55 AM UTC

A1kmm wrote: post #521

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

I think it's incorrect to frame every action in Israel as the actions of Likud. That's not at all how the Israeli government works. It's a coalition government in which, yes, Likud is the biggest party, but made up of many other parties as well, and for the purposes of this war includes a party that was previously an opposition party to this government.

For better or worse, the Likud-led coalition is the current government of Israel, and Hamas is the current government of Palestine.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#896

Post by adastra22 » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 9:22 AM UTC

mhalberstram wrote: post #610

grumple wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I could not confirm your claim that Hamas called for murdering Jews globally. Could you please share a source? My feeling is that media controlled by people - like TikTok - tend to be pro-Palestinian, whereas media controlled by institutions tend to be pro-Israeli (with the exception of the majority of ONGs and human right organizations). > it gets amplified by 1.8 billion people whose holy book calls for attacks on…

Article 7 of the Hamas charter.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#897

Post by adastra22 » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 9:32 AM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #380

Despite all this, as a casual observer, my general impression is Israel has done terribly at making the case for war, and specifically the kind of war their military seems to be carrying out. The most relevant comparison seems to be with the Russians. Russia has no credibility in the West and Israel is rapidly losing any they had, at least with younger people. My general impression is of a Russian-level intensity of…

Are you serious? They were attacked first and invaded, experiencing the equivalent of Pearl Harbor + 9/11 together in relative terms, or in absolute terms the 2nd worst terrorist attack EVER. Entire communities viciously wiped out, and hundreds of hostages taken, followed by a barrage of thousands of rockets on the cities of Israel.

I'm at a loss of words. What kind of explanation are you missing?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#898

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 9:34 AM UTC

Unfrozen0688 wrote: post #464

narag wrote: post #304

Two ideas: 1. It was surprising to me that Hamas believed that filming and publishing their atrocities was a good idea. And more surprising that the response hasn't been a bigger backlash. 2. That makes me think that despite the fact that both parts think that infowar is necessary, the real war is fought on the ground, with weapons, bullets and bombs. Not with protests, declarations and tweets. Neither Israel nor the…

1. News outlets here actually did not show the full Hamas footage from Oct 7. But they have no problem showing Hamas propaganda.

[deleted]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#899

Post by adastra22 » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 9:36 AM UTC

nojvek wrote: post #675

I really wished Israel didn’t blatantly start airbombing Gaza civilian infrastructure and blockade food, water, gas. When Russia does this on Ukraine, we call them war criminals but when Israel does it on Palestinians we call it business as usual. The idea of military revenge doesn’t get us anywhere. Defense is the best offense. Little gains the world made in Middle East stability have now been reversed for decades.…

What, specifically, should they have done instead?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#900

Post by adastra22 » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 9:38 AM UTC

cma wrote: post #860

xenospn wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s an illegal Nuke?

He might have been thinking of how aid to Israel in the US is illegal under a law which prohibits aid to nuclear states that aren't party to the non-proliferation treaty.

How does the US give aid to Pakistan then?