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Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

nytimes.com

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Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#891

Post by AlexandrB »

danielfoster wrote: post #613
boppo1 wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell a naive young guy more. What are the red flags?

I'm studying for my CFE (Certified Fraud Examiner) and can shed some light on this. As others mentioned, unexplainable business models or money coming out of nowhere are major red flags. A few others to look out for if you are applying for a job: 1. Few or no internal controls. A medium-size or larger company not having a CFO is particularly questionable. 2. People in high positions, including the CEO, lack qualifica…

Another good one is downplaying standard accounting practices in favor of "adjusted" metrics like WeWork's "Community Adjusted EBITDA".

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#893

Post by AlexandrB »

ikrenji wrote: post #876
hoschicz wrote: post #740

[flagged]

i don't think he needs to spend a long time in prison but anywhere between 2-5 is appropriate imo. these are not "victimless" crimes

When you can get more than that for shoplifting[1] or stealing a car, I don't think it's appropriate at all. If we're going to overhaul the entire justice system at the same time, then sure.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/17/walmart-shop...

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#894

Post by wrsh07 »

peter422 wrote: post #206
bibabaloo wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking online I see reports that FTX owes its creditors $3B. If Anthropic has 6.5x then the initial $500 million is now worth $3.25B. Is it actually possible that all creditors will get their money back? Pretty crazy if so.

Much like the infamous FTT token, just because it’s worth that much on paper doesn’t mean that is what you could sell it for today. I say this as a person with chunks of stock in a few private companies. And obviously for the people impacted, it’s quite a loss to get all your money over a year after you tried to withdraw it, even if you do get it all.

I am fairly confident there is private money that would gladly buy 3.5 billion worth of anthropic at the current price

But 100%, it's not just about getting repaid. Yes that helps, but not having your money last year might have mattered to some ftx customers

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#895

Post by omginternets »

boppo1 wrote: post #510
siskiyou wrote: post #324

Reminds me of working for MCI-Worldcom. When you think you’re working for crooks, you probably are. Run away.

Tell a naive young guy more. What are the red flags?

I think the hard part of this for naive young people is that you have to actually do some investigation. This should be front-and-center during your interview process. When they get around to asking if you have any questions for them, you should take that opportunity to see if this is a serious place.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#896

Post by omginternets »

kawhah wrote: post #890
hoschicz wrote: post #740

[flagged]

Out of interest did you make the same arguments about Martin Shkreli (arrogant and unlikable child of immigrants who did a much smaller scale scam similar to SBFs but where everyone was eventually repaid in full) and about Andrew Auernheimer (annoying and racist child of a working class single mother who performed a fairly successful hack without any personal gain) and about Brian Salcedo (working class, non-college-…

Is it really off the table to do both?

Note: I'm not convinced prison should be off the table.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#897

Post by Beijinger »

danielfoster wrote: post #613
boppo1 wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell a naive young guy more. What are the red flags?

I'm studying for my CFE (Certified Fraud Examiner) and can shed some light on this. As others mentioned, unexplainable business models or money coming out of nowhere are major red flags. A few others to look out for if you are applying for a job: 1. Few or no internal controls. A medium-size or larger company not having a CFO is particularly questionable. 2. People in high positions, including the CEO, lack qualifica…

Outstanding advise.

I just had a meeting for a Job. Flags 2 and 4 were there already. Unclear business model. I have a PhD. While this does not make me necessarily smart, I have an insight and understanding of many industries. If I don't understand you business in a few sentences, you are either a fraud or are much much smarter than me.

I give you a few more red flags, but remember, this are red flags, not proof of fraud.

1. Operating over many jurisdictions.

2. Opaque payments/salaries. Either to good to be true or commission based.

3. People who don't understand numbers and often are off by a magnitude. The stock is worth 5 bucks, could go up 200 times and then ist 10k per stock. Company is worth now X billion, could be 200 times more. 200 times? We are taking market capitalization of the biggest players here, is this even possible for this specific industry?

4. Mentioning big names. Studied at MIT etc. (but very likely did not) Or for low lever frauds, build trust by assigning with law enforcement. (My farther works for the police, is a judge etc.)

5. If you know an industry you know the stuff, you know the numbers and you are never caught off guard by a question.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#898

Post by MacsHeadroom »

TheRealHB wrote: post #853

Does that changes the scene in any way? Is Bankman-Fried's Guilty Verdict a Crypto's "Madoff" Moment? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38128260

Crypto is rallying. Bitcoin is higher than it has been in over a year. It's been trending up for a while though.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#899

Post by grvdrm »

Tangurena2 wrote: post #715
vishnugupta wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair SBF convicted himself on a platter. Only he knows what made him think he'd get away by facing trial. Maybe he was just dumb, overconfident, ill-advised, or a combination of everything.

He is one of those people who think they can talk their way out of everything. Everything is not only negotiable, but the only possible "truth" is what they are saying right now (yesterday's "truth"? "You're remembering that incorrectly - I never said that!" ). I hated working for people like that, and I'd feel like I needed to take a shower after every meeting. If you only encounter them occasionally, a normal perso…

Wow, amazing phrasing. I work for this person now!

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#900

Post by AlexandrB »

zztop44 wrote: post #750
lubesGordi wrote: post #739

Sequoia invested $200M in this guy. Has anyone looked at whether SBF could've done as much damage without that investment? Has anyone looked at if Sequoia did their due diligence? Seems like Sequoia could've seen red flags just from knowing Alameda existed. The potential abuse there was completely obvious.

The whole Sequoia thing is so interesting. Here is an excerpt from their (now taken down) profile of SBF, highlighting the moment he convinced them to invest: > That’s when SBF told Sequoia about the so-called super-app: “I want FTX to be a place where you can do anything you want with your next dollar. You can buy bitcoin. You can send money in whatever currency to any friend anywhere in the world. You can buy a ban…

I think it's a good reminder that large investors are human and don't possess any special knowledge or magical foresight. Consequently, everything they say about the future of technology and society should be taken with a large grain of salt - not treated like god's honest truth.
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