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GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

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Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#891

Post by johnnyanmac »

simplicio wrote: post #514
JasserInicide wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll contend that while I've been fully taken advantage of remote work (and probably want my next job to be remote too), I still fully believe it's a long term "leading lambs to the slaughter" type of plan. Companies save big on remote in so many ways. No more offices. No more weekly happy hours (just do a company retreat every 6 months). They can now depress salaries even further because they have a wider pool from…

Maybe, but that works both ways. Employees are often reluctant to leave jobs where they have a lot of personal relationships, or if getting a new job would entail moving to a new city/state/country, even if jumping ship would entail a sizable payraise or other improvement in working conditions. In an industry where remote work is the norm and changing jobs doesn't even require changing offices, people are much less l…

>In an industry where remote work is the norm and changing jobs doesn't even require changing offices, people are much less likely to give up some pay to stay where they are.

yea and I already feel those effects. had an office for one month and then they closed it in order to transfer elsewhere. Was already configured to WFH so no issue transitioning. Meanwhile I haven't seen a human face in 2 weeks and haven't interacted with someone my age in 3 months. I guess that is great for true hermits, but I liked SOME interaction.

This also seems to have an indirect impact on my career aspects. Some of the best parts of office was the growth as you worked directly with experts in your domain and seeing how they tick and hearing their war stories. You can hear all that passively in a cafeteria as you're on break. That goes away and I now interact with maybe 5-6 people max per week, and I wonder if I am even growing anymore.

Oh well at least the pay is good.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#892

Post by johnnyanmac »

puckerup44 wrote: post #775
acheron wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being social is fine. That’s what I have real friends for. I don’t need pretend friends at work.

I always see this parroted by people on HN and it's such a pathetic stance to take. Every job I've been at I've formed close friends. My closest friends include people from every job and I don't think it's a coincidence. These friendships are just as real (and I'd argue stronger) than your "real" friends. Maybe the problem is with you and you are just somebody people don't like? Or you think you shouldn't be making f…

I don't even know how you find "real friends" these days without being friends since grade school/college. Been trying for years in meetups to make real friends and nothing clicks. I have some good friends but they are as busy as I am and syncing up to meet is hard.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#893

Post by johnnyanmac »

indigochill wrote: post #792
puckerup44 wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always see this parroted by people on HN and it's such a pathetic stance to take. Every job I've been at I've formed close friends. My closest friends include people from every job and I don't think it's a coincidence. These friendships are just as real (and I'd argue stronger) than your "real" friends. Maybe the problem is with you and you are just somebody people don't like? Or you think you shouldn't be making f…

The reality is outside of work you pick your friends. At work, you're placed on a team with other people and you have no choice but to work with them. Sometimes they're great, but sometimes they're people you want nothing to do with, but they're on your team so you suck it up and make it work to the extent required by the job. Over my career I've both worked with people that I've voluntarily kept in touch with after…

Not really. you can't force anyone to be your friend, and if there is some supericial reason someone doesn't like you, you can't really change that (not without a big change I guess. I'm sure if you got ripped you'd suddenly have a lot more "friends). You're at the mercy of luck in where you meet and who clicks with you. And that gets harder as meetups and socialties become more based around how drunk you get or if you like sports. I like neither.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#894

Post by johnnyanmac »

dantyti wrote: post #865
WoodenChair wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employees are often reluctant to leave jobs where they have a lot of personal relationships, or if getting a new job would entail moving to a new city/state/country, even if jumping ship would entail a sizable payraise or other improvement in working conditions. Yeah you know I’d much rather work in a place where I have a very limited relationship with the people I spend at least 8 hours a day with. That was sarcas…

>Yeah you know I’d much rather work in a place where I have a very limited relationship with the people I spend at least 8 hours a day with. I would. No sarcasm. With the caveat that I don't have to spend 9 hours a day with them, as I'm not forced into an office space with them. I've also found that working at companies which push for closer employee social bonds with countless office activities, quarterly teambuildi…

When you can't get the former, the latter is still a nice backup. Remote works can end with neither.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#895

Post by johnnyanmac »

burntwater wrote: post #688
scarface74 wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average tenure at most tech companies are around 3 years. I assure you that most of your “friends” at work won’t keep in touch with you three years after you leave.

That's fine, then I'll have friends in one place for three years, and then I'll have friends in another place for three years. I don't see the problem here.

The problem where you end up not making any friends and you're all alone now because your Meetup groups are bust.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#896

Post by johnnyanmac »

sanderjd wrote: post #649
oblio wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying that. Humans don't work like that. Almost all meaningful relations are based on prolonged proximity.

Very few (but not zero!) of my meaningful relations have been through work.

meanwhile all my post college relations have been through work and I've struggled to try and make friends outside of work. Unironic advice seems to be to make friends with co-workers. And meetups, which I have yet to form a signifigant bond at (when most people flake after 1-2 sessions and sessions are monthly, I can't blame them).

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#897

Post by johnnyanmac »

achenet wrote: post #888
oblio wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying that. Humans don't work like that. Almost all meaningful relations are based on prolonged proximity.

that's why I show up to my olympic weightlifting club, and music shows, and acroyoga jams regularly. I do like my co-workers. A lot. But if seeing them in the office was my only social life I'd die. I can't speak for everyone, but personally the time/effort invested into forming meaningful relations by regularly showing up to places where I can engage with others who have similar interests (oly lifting, music, acroyo…

>But if seeing them in the office was my only social life I'd die.

great. Now imagine if you didn't have that nor any clubs where you felt welcome. That's the situation for many people who do make friends at work.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#898

Post by johnnyanmac »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #664
oblio wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying that. Humans don't work like that. Almost all meaningful relations are based on prolonged proximity.

I am not sure why you would say that. I mean it is true, but I am not sure how it is relevant here. If one avenue is not there, ones that crave it badly enough will venture forth. If I don't go to work and WANT to engage with others so badly, I will. And besides, meaningful relations is a meaningless term. Example. My parent has neighbors. They have lived closely to one another. So closely and long, in fact, they had…

The big problem these days is age. My neighhbors seem fine but are in different stages in life. I more or less inherited this house but it's a house built for families to be raised. So all my neighbors are 40's+ taking care of at best very young teenage kids, and I'm a 20's tech dude. Not much clicks.

>If one avenue is not there, ones that crave it badly enough will venture forth

I guess all my 20's demograpic in town don't crave socialiation. Or I guess literally all of them are in bars. Not my scene.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#899

Post by johnnyanmac »

TomSwirly wrote: post #590
oblio wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying that. Humans don't work like that. Almost all meaningful relations are based on prolonged proximity.

You must hang out with some poor quality humans. My meaningful relationships are based on how much I like the people. Sitting within X meters of someone doesn't make me like them particularly. Liking someone is based on how similar we are in aesthetics, politics, philosophy, and world view, not whether we worked on unrelated things in the same neck of the woods. I've been in the work world for almost 40 years now and…

>Sitting within X meters of someone doesn't make me like them particularly

I'm not goint to like nor even remember every neightbor, but it gives me OPPORTUNITY. You need some luck to make friends post college, and luck is simply opportunity + preoaration.

Especially post COVID, opportunities are sparse. All I want is a chance. If we don't click, cool. The kind of people that I probably click with aren't going to random meetups I guess.

Re: GitHub to lay off 10% and close all offices

#900

Post by johnnyanmac »

bart_spoon wrote: post #832
oblio wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying that. Humans don't work like that. Almost all meaningful relations are based on prolonged proximity.

Yes, and the point is that if you or your coworker is laid off or take a new job, that proximity is immediately nullified and the relationship typically withers and dies. Spend less time socializing at work, and more time creating that prolonged proximity outside of work, so that relationships of your choosing can be formed that are less subject to the whims of your bosses and the economy.

>so that relationships of your choosing can be formed

and then you realize no one wants to choose you back and maybe your niche geeky tech company is the best place to find fellow introverts.

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