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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#891

Post by paiute »

gymbeaux wrote: post #467
Larrikin wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities are making it illegal, as they should. It's not always meant in bad faith, but it's also a form of gentrification that hurts the poor and unbanked by removing yet another service from them. https://www.nssh.com/2020/04/philadelphias-ban-on-cashless-s... I personally never use anything but cards since I have many of the high reward credit cards. But I've also had family members with tax liens or other problems…

I saw one of those “mind blown!” sorts of posts on Facebook the other day that I haven’t been able to really reconcile in my head because it both makes sense and doesn’t make sense. The gist was that if everybody is paying with credit cards, $50 will eventually whittle down to $0 because AmEx, et. Al. got $50 worth of fees after so many transactions (accountant pays grocer who pays dentist who pays hygienist who pays…

credit cards are pure evil. And yet I have 2. What's worse is that they raise the cost at stores, payed for by people who don't pay them off on time. I'm no socialist, but that's certainly not progressive.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#892

Post by PaulHoule »

subpixel wrote: post #876
qqtt wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, that isn't how coffee shops typically operate in the United States, which is what makes it interesting. Operating a coffee shop without tips has special and unique considerations in the United States - chiefly, how to retain talent and employees when conventional wisdom would say it is better paying to get a job at a traditional tip-based coffee shop, which again, are plentiful in the United States. I w…

This is exactly how Dunkin, McDonalds, and Starbucks operates now that they all have apps. So, the vast majority of coffee places in the US. Order, pay, pickup, done. No tip expected (though nobody stops you).

I grew up in New England where Dunkin Donuts is almost a religion, right up there with the New England Patriots. I wasn't excited about Krispy Kreme at all because I grew up with good donuts.

One of the first things I remember as a kid in the 1970s was reading the "no tipping" sign at Dunkin's and asking my parents about it. So it has been a policy there for a long, long time.

(Funny they put a Dunkin's in on my side of town a few years ago, I don't know how many people know the supermarket across the street makes better donuts, which is truly unusual.)

We had a Starbucks in Collegetown which went to only taking mobile orders during the pandemic which meant I pretty much quit drinking coffee there. Not long after Starbucks closed the location to bust the union that was forming there. In my mind that area is a "coffee desert", I mean you can get coffee but so far as I can tell the best coffee is at 7-11 and everything else is much worse.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#893

Post by n8henrie »

shostack wrote: post #533
yafbum wrote: post #449

There has been a deplorable profusion of dark patterns in restaurant checkout UIs, such as offering preselected tip amounts set along a 18-20-25% scale (standard used to be 15%), making it quite difficult to leave a custom tip, etc. Add to this various "surcharges" and other mandatory fees added for this or that (my favorite: mandatory "resort fees" for hotels - seriously why is that not just rolled into the price of…

Don't forget: - Asking for a tip for takeout orders - Asking for the payment including tip before you've received service, often via one of those stupid QR menus that does who knows what with your order data that is now tied to your phone - Not having 20% as a tip option, but something like 18%, 23%, 27% - Looming over your shoulder while you enter the tip I want servers to make a livable wage. I'm willing to pay mor…

Thinking about your comment on QR codes -- If memory serves its not difficult on iOS to set something up to display the QR code data as text instead of acting on it.

I assume it's similarly opaque to use a URL for the same purpose, which would almost certainly be a "enter your phone / email so we can send you your URL...".

In your opinion, assuming electronic ordering, what is the best alternative to a QR code when considering privacy + ease of use?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#894

Post by everforward »

jrmg wrote: post #540
gymbeaux wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw one of those “mind blown!” sorts of posts on Facebook the other day that I haven’t been able to really reconcile in my head because it both makes sense and doesn’t make sense. The gist was that if everybody is paying with credit cards, $50 will eventually whittle down to $0 because AmEx, et. Al. got $50 worth of fees after so many transactions (accountant pays grocer who pays dentist who pays hygienist who pays…

This feels plausible but I think it is really nonsense. Processing fees are not unique to cash. Banks charge cash processing fees to businesses too, and have for ever. Most shops will deposit all the cash received at the end of the day - perhaps every few days - with a bank.

Those cash processing fees would only apply if the cash was repeatedly deposited and withdrawn, and probably only by businesses. The hygienist can probably deposit cash for free, I don't think I've ever paid a fee into a consumer bank account.

Taxes will do the same, though. Employers have to payroll taxes, employees have to pay income taxes. The $50 will eventually all bleed back to the government.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#895

Post by DrThunder »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #551
DrThunder wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provide evidence based examples please.

https://www.eater.com/a/case-against-tipping here's some

Propaganda aligning with a certain modern day cult and nothing but subjective anecdotes isn't proof of anything. First of all you'd have to PROVE the tipping difference is due to racism.... something this article fails completely at.

Let's assume that people are actually tipping "people of color" worse. Do you think getting rid of tipping is somehow fixing this perceived racism? If so, why do you believe you can legislate a personality trait out of people?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#896

Post by GuB-42 »

midasuni wrote: post #649
euroderf wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one nice thing about living in the EU, that it mandates full price disclosure for some industries. (Anyone got a list?) In particular, when it says your airline ticket is NNN€, you will pay than NNN€. No screwball fees up the wazoo.

Still plenty of restaurants with “service charge” at the bottom of the menu

It depends on the country. It is not the case in France for instance. I don't know exactly what the law say, but you shouldn't have to pay for anything that you didn't order, and you shouldn't pay more than what's written on the menu.

Tips are appreciated but not expected. I's say that if you are used to the American way, tip what you would normally tip above your baseline. For example if you normally tip 15%, and 20% for good service, then in France, don't tip for average service, and tip 5% for good service.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#897

Post by DrThunder »

nerdbert wrote: post #149
DrThunder wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't. For sit down restaurants, or many service oriented jobs it makes for a better customer experience. I agree for counter service it where they want tips BEFORE the service experience it makes no sense. You ought to try sitting down in a restaurant in the EU. They do the bare minimum to serve you. Tying a possible bonus to the way you act in customer service facing role has a lot of benefits. "In addition it ge…

> For sit down restaurants, or many service oriented jobs it makes for a better customer experience. In my personal experience, it makes it worse. They annoy me with attempts to be ingratiating. They fish for tips with forms and devices which creates awkward and unpleasant situations, especially if I didn't like the service. There is nothing pleasant for me about having someone watching me and trying to guess when I…

That's fine... it's your country and continent. I happen to dislike that attitude and so do a LOT of other Americans. It turns out EU culture isn't something everyone strives for.

If I wanted to ask for something I'd stay home, they're called waiters and not for a reason. There's no "pretending to be a friend" going on, it's just called being cordial.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#898

Post by everforward »

kelnos wrote: post #612
andirk wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer paying cash. It is also elitist to not accept cash because it means I need a credit card or an expensive phone, neither of which I have on me while jogging. I also don't jog, but you get the point. At my gym I had a keychain bar code that worked great. Now I need my phone, phone charged, brightness up, their stupid app, signed in, open it up, click check-in. It turned a 2 second 1 gram device in to this whol…

> It is also elitist to not accept cash I think you're ascribing malice to something that is largely a function of cost, safety, and hassle. Yes, credit card fees are not free, but: 1. Managing cash is not free either. At the end of the shift / end of the day, you need employees to count cash and reconcile the amounts with receipts. Cash in excess of what the business wants to keep on hand needs to be transported to…

> Related, there's also the risk of being paid with counterfeit bills. Granted, there's also the risk of stolen credit cards being used, and the business is usually forced to eat the cost of that. So this might turn out to be a wash (or perhaps, I suspect, this is actually worse with credit cards).

I'm curious if credit cards actually are worse. I haven't had anyone ask for my ID to use a credit card in a long while. My hypothesis is that stolen credit cards are used online frequently, but rarely in person. Likely because it's easier to steal 10,000 credit card numbers online than in person, and because people are more likely to notice and report a card stolen if it's physically missing.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#899

Post by adunsulag »

Analemma_ wrote: post #315
expensive_news wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat of a meta-comment but I’m shocked at how many people are complaining about you not taking cash. Has anyone ever walked out of your coffee shop because they only had cash on them? I can’t remember the last time I paid or even saw someone pay cash for anything.

Remember: this is HN, where the bubble effect is strong. On Hacker News, everybody "knows" that Google Search is useless these days and that Amazon results are all counterfeit junk, even though in the real world I have never heard anyone bring this up and these services are still incredibly popular. It's the same thing with cash: I don't think I've seen anyone pay with cash in years. Even the old people at the grocer…

Many stores I go to in rural america ONLY accept cash or check. The areas are so poor they refuse to pay the credit card fee. That and I suspect there's a lot of tax evasion going on.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#900

Post by flanbiscuit »

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

There was a restaurant that opened near my old apartment (literally on my block) that started off with no tipping. It was a great fancy pizza place. Loved going there. Fast forward about 5 years, we've moved a few subway stops away so didn't go there as often (also the pandemic). We go back in 2021 and we come to find out as we pay that there is a tip line on their receipt. Never truly found out why but I wonder if it was hard to find or retain staff that can work at similar, or better, caliber restaurants and make more money via tips. From comments in their Yelp reviews it looks like they started taking tips before the pandemic so that wasn't the cause.

I hope you'll be able to continue not taking tips because I really wish we'd abolish this practice. Good luck with your cafe and I would love to try it out next time I'm in LA!

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