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“It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

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Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#891

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about adopting RCS, NOT about pushing iMessage to other platforms.

This post is about Google pushing RCS to other platforms. I’m pointing out why their competitor, Apple, has not done the same with RCS’s competitor, iMessage. It’s an apples-to-apples comparison, and I consider it relevant to be mindful of this particular difference when considering RCS. Google could have implemented crypto-signed device identifier attestation as a mandatory requirement for RCS, which would have give…

> This post is about Google pushing RCS to other platforms.

RCS doesn't belong to Google. It's a standard.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#892

Most businesses, consumers, and developers universally continue to ignore the primary reason that iMessage is a closed platform, rather than an app on every platform as iTunes is: Apple is using device serial numbers for anti-spam, supported by a fully-authenticated hardware and software stack that does not allow user modification. This permits Apple to simply “console ban” any Apple device that spams on iMessage. Th…

I have two cell phone, android and iOS. On Android I install my own spam filter message app and see no spam at all. On contrary, I still get plenty of spam from iMessage.

So I don't think it works.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#893

Most businesses, consumers, and developers universally continue to ignore the primary reason that iMessage is a closed platform, rather than an app on every platform as iTunes is: Apple is using device serial numbers for anti-spam, supported by a fully-authenticated hardware and software stack that does not allow user modification. This permits Apple to simply “console ban” any Apple device that spams on iMessage. Th…

There are literally multiple internal Apple emails released through court testimony where Apple executives clearly explain how important iMessage is to lock-in to iPhone and how if parents can just buy an Android and install an iMessage app it would mean disaster. In none of these emails is spam or privacy or security even mentioned. The primary reason Apple is doing it for platform lock-in, plain and simple. They li…

You misunderstand. I don’t care about Apple’s desire for lock-in at all. I want Google RCS to implement, and make mandatory, secured device identifier attestation. I want to be able to block the actual hardware devices that spam me through carrier messaging. RCS could have offered that, and doesn’t. What a shame.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Apple doesn't send MMS? because from my experience, it totally can. I know because I've got the bill for it. But to go back to the original point, I don't want google near my chat history. I don't really like Apple having it either.

Apple turns texts between iPhones and Android phones into SMS and MMS, out-of-date technologies from the 90s and 00s. But Apple can adopt RCS—the modern industry standard—for these threads instead. Solving the problem without changing your iPhone to iPhone conversations and making messaging better for everyone. At some point we should require people to tell us whether they have read the link or not so we can know if…

> But Apple can adopt RCS—the modern industry standard—for these threads instead.

Ah, yes, the “industry standard” which relies on proprietary extensions made by Google which are only implemented in one of Google’s applications, and whose carrier adoption figures are based on Google hosting the servers.

RCS is better, but don’t oversell this as more than Google’s attempt to pressure Apple into helping them recover from repeated self-inflicted damage. If they hadn’t screwed up their messaging strategy so many times since the 2000s nobody would care about iMessage. We could be using an open cross-platform system if they hadn’t killed that concept trying to force people to use Google+.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#895
post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As indicated elsethread, that API doc expressly declares near the top that it is not usable for device identifiers. Without device identifiers, there is no way to stop spammers.

1. No, you don't need device IDs to stop spammers. 2. I don't think you know what you're talking about. Android supports the device attestation: https://source.android.com/security/keystore/attestation > ID attestation allows the device to provide proof of its hardware identifiers, such as serial number or IMEI. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bweeks-acme-device-at... It feels like you've concocted some narrat…

Okay, I’ll assume you’re right, which considerably worsens the case for RCS:

Google could have given us device-signed messaging with RCS, so that users and carriers could block devices for spamming regardless of the source address.

Google didn’t. They had the power to do so in RCS using their own APIs, and yet they chose not to offer an effective protection.

How is this failure by Google a selling point for RCS? Why would anyone consider RCS at all without device attestation? We don’t need yet another abuse-laden, unidentifiable-source chat protocol. We need a material improvement in quality of life for users, not a veneer of fancy bells and whistles on top of the same plague of spam as today.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#896
post #256
post #42

This is one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time. The company that has had 47 different messaging apps and changes them weekly trying to lecture the company that nailed it first time. Grow up Google.

How did they nail it if it doesnt work well with 80% of phones?

It does.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#897
post #234

This is such a weirdly US specific issue. It's hard to understand why people in this country refuse to adopt a data-based messaging service such as Signal or WhatsApp like the rest of the world has. Why are US citizens so set on having a terrible experience when messaging half of the population? How did other countries decide that using platform agnostic messaging services are better? I believe the UK has a similar s…

I can expect anyone who has a cell phone to be able to receive SMS. When I first started using a cell phone in 2007, that's all that was available. Or at least, it's all I knew that was available. Every phone I've owned since then has had the capability to use SMS, and I've never had a need to use anything else. So I don't see why I'd bother with something like Signal or WhatsApp, when there's no guarantee that the p…

In many countries SMS can get expensive, especially for international use, depending on the phone billing policy. In poorer countries people often use free wifi areas for data-based messaging. Hence the popularity of WhatsApp. Even if you have a limited mobile data plan, WhatsApp uses the capacity very efficiently, so it's still affordable.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#898

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cause it's not terrible. It still works ok the way it is, and people tend to use FB Messenger or something if they want a more complex group chat with Android users in it. Considering that they do this even if it's an all-Android chat, I don't think it's Apple's fault, as scummy as they act with SMS. Also, people don't care for metric cause it's not better. Basing your system around the physical properties of water d…

I will agree that one of the few places that the imperial system is hands down better than metric is that on the highway it's roughly 1 mile per minute. That and it's just barely possible to run a mile in under 4 minutes, so makes for a nice clean time barrier. But these are just coincidences and are the exception not the rule

IMO the imperial system is full of these coincidences, and if you look at history, you can see how they emerged: from historical people changing the size of the units until they had enough useful coincidences.

A mile is about 1000 steps for a marching army, about 20 minutes of walking, or about 1 minute by car. Comfortable Farenheit temperatures roughly run from 0 to 100. A foot is about the length of a foot or a forearm, and an inch is about the length of the top joint of a thumb. 1/1000th of an inch (a "mil") is roughly the smallest discernable difference in size of objects when you look closely. People are about 6 feet tall. People weigh 100-200 lbs. The "lucky coincidences" continue. They do because they were evolved, not because they were accidents.

Contrast that with the metric system, which was built around properties of water and powers of 10 (which are not obviously better than the powers of 2 and 3 that the imperial system uses - next time you need a 1/3rd recipe you can see what I mean). It is not an accident that a day is 2x2x2x3 hours and an hour is 2x2x3x5 minutes (attempts to adopt metric time were proposed, but rejected). Neither is it an accident that a foot is 2x2x3 inches, and a mile is 2x2x2x2x2x3x5x11 feet (although I have never divided anything by 11 recently). Imperial volumetric measurements are basically binary fixed point: 1 gallon is 16 cups, and 1 cup is 16 tbsp. There are lots of historical names for the intermediate units, like quarts and furlongs, but those have evolved over a longer period of time.

For scientific use, the metric system is obviously a lot easier, and order of magnitude matters a lot more than easy divisibility and "feel" of a unit. For everyday use, I am not sold on it.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this like it is a bad thing. I used Signal, which is an open-source messaging app. If Apple were censoring messaging apps I would agree with your seemingly negative sentiment, however, as someone who has pushed out apps to the Apple and Mac app stores, I can say they absolutely do not do that. There are many reasons many IT folks actually prefer an iPhone over Android. The two biggest ones are privacy and sec…

> You say this like it is a bad thing. It has been a bad thing for me because iOS decided to get me off Whtasapp and forced me using the much worse Apple message system without me having any say in it. I have a SE and a relatively older iOS version on it, can't remember exactly which one. I don't have internet banking and don't have very much of a financial presence online, and, as such, I don't care that much about…

I’ve been able to download apps that require newer OSes on iPhone. If I have downloaded it before, it lets me download the last compatible version. Is this not the case with WhatsApp or somethinh

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#900
post #58
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> definitely sent/received SMS over wifi using my iPhone Are you certain? From what I understand about how SMS works, I don’t see how that’s possible. Apple’s own docs also appear to suggest that SMS-over-WiFi won’t work: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207006

Most operators do cellular over wifi now (because 4G/5G sucks indoor). Not all of them though.

4G is not so bad here because of the 700 / 800 MHz band which has really good penetration.

But 5G is mainly done on 3.5Ghz and that's tough yes. Of course they can use the same frequencies for 5G. Though the bandwidth at such low frequencies is limited, and thus the maximum speeds.

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