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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#891

Post by conductr »

bradchris wrote: post #690
conductr wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and No. On an individual basis, nurses are overworked because they choose to be and their employers allow for it. The standard work week is 3 12 hour shifts, which is much less than most professionals work. Like a retail or warehouse worker, they are expected to clock out as soon as possible and leave when the shift ends. Those of us with salary jobs knows how difficult that can be in our arrangements and how muc…

"Hospitals barely make money as it is, I don't see how this is a sustainable solution. Paying more does not create capacity in this industry." The problem is – and this may be very bizarre in a society as capitalistic as the US – healthcare should not be beholden to making a profit. Rehabilitating people is clearly "valuable" to the economy in that without people to participate in the economic system, a debt-based ec…

I tend to agree with majority of this but it’s another can of worms altogether. It’s also an alternative reality nowhere near existing. In reality, no profit means no healthcare at all so these happen to be important considerations.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#892

Post by atoav »

hackernewds wrote: post #867
pbuzbee wrote: post #573

Is this a shock? - Demanding work: 12 hour shifts, irregular schedules, night shifts, physically exhausting, limited breaks (including bathroom/water!) - High responsibility with unsafe conditions. You're literally responsible for people's lives. Poor staffing ratios stretch you thin and make you more likely to make mistakes. And if you make a mistake, you're at huge risk for litigation... and now criminal consequenc…

Some of these conditions have always existed. But I can't imagine 90% have wanted to quit in the last decade. The most important factor thus is most likely COVID

Like with many jobs Covid revealed what society truly values and what not. Sure clapping for nurses, nice. But these people should have propper working conditions and wages, otherwise nobody will want to do the job.

Covid just gave the realization that even if we face a global crisis where nurses are dying on the front, the rest of society is not willing to provide the bare minimum these people deserve.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#893

Post by FesterCluck »

I am a systems engineer and software developer, and I have worked on multiple healthcare related systems including one for a major hospital system.

I wish I had more access to nurses during the process. I was always told they were too busy. I just wanted to observe, as I do with any client I write systems for, and was denied. I can say that at least 2 other groups were working on the exact same project as I in the hospital system, and we "won". We all worked in isolation from one another, I discovered the others by accident.

The top of major healthcare systems is wasteful and full of "little kingdoms". The ideas that "AI is going to help" and "nurses need to feel heard" are basically incompatible. Throwing money at artificial brains is always to substitute real ones, and the concept itself is contradictory to employee development. Why train a bunch of nurses endlessly on a subject when you can train an AI once?

We're supposed to be improving & developing people's lives here, not improving a box. For centuries we've found new ways of thinking that have made us better at science and medicine. Computers could do that, but we're not using them to teach each other. We're using them to replace one another.

It may sound silly, but I've reached the point that the theory Dune puts forth seems right.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#894

Post by markdown »

conductr wrote: post #609
cogman10 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

Yes and No. On an individual basis, nurses are overworked because they choose to be and their employers allow for it. The standard work week is 3 12 hour shifts, which is much less than most professionals work. Like a retail or warehouse worker, they are expected to clock out as soon as possible and leave when the shift ends. Those of us with salary jobs knows how difficult that can be in our arrangements and how muc…

> Hospitals barely make money as it is

They aren't supposed to.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#895

Post by jupp0r »

cogman10 wrote: post #416
mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

I always wanted to understand how hospitals get away with treating their employees like that. In any other industry, people would not accept it. This is the industry where (arguably) I'd want people to be _most_ relaxed and _least_ overworked because human lives and wellbeing is on the line. Why don't airlines do that to their pilots? Should there be similar regulation in nursing?

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#896

Post by [deleted] »

xyzzyz wrote: post #64
mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

> 2. Patients in COVID have become downright mean. Add this to the problems nurses have management and doctors (who are often rude and arrogant) and it's a poor culture. The quality of the environment, from a mental health standpoint, is on the decline. Mean customers, and rude coworkers? I sympathize, but this is a reality in a lot of industries. I have no reason to believe that healthcare here is worse than average…

[deleted]

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#897

Post by fargle »

screye wrote: post #550

Not to be mean, but 'leave nursing' and then what ? Nursing is a well paying middle-class job without a lot of transferable skills to other professions. Don't say programming. It isn't the solution to everything. Other low-entry-barrier jobs pay much less and have exploitation problems of their own. For a lot of middle class families, dual income is essential to maintain their lifestyle. So SAHM is not an option. Nur…

> Not to be mean, but 'leave nursing' and then what ? Nursing is a well paying middle-class job without a lot of transferable skills to other professions.

Whelp, that the whole point. When you have a good paying job and people are leaving in droves for ??? anything else, maybe even teaching or staying home. That's a bad sign.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#898

Post by milkcircle »

archon810 wrote: post #567
germinalphrase wrote: post #55

I have a close relation that works for one of the oldest pediatric hospitals in the country. It was recently revealed that they will be shuttering almost all pediatric services in the next year because they can 10x their profits by only serving elderly clients. The entire purpose of this organization was to provide pediatric healthcare, and it wasn’t losing money… Sometimes, it feels like we’re min-maxing ourselves t…

Can you share the hospital name?

It's probably Tufts. https://www.boston.com/news/health/2022/01/23/pediatric-doct...

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#899

Post by urthor »

pfisherman wrote: post #814
mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

> IT systems that they have to use were designed by people who have not talked with the workers who use them. They may have been designed with laws and compliance in mind. Nurses aren't the people who choose or pay for these systems. But, they use them a lot (maybe the most) and it's obvious they weren't taken into account when designing the UX. It's maddening for them. I can speak to this a bit. After interviewing l…

Apple made that money from selling Airpods to the entire globe however.

Part of EHR's problems are definitely that the market is only one single country, the United States.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#900

Post by dopaminop »

My mom is a nurse and although she doesn't live in the US she also suffers from the same poor conditions. She has to work on the database herself, staff shortage is a big problem (sometimes getting to 4 nurses in her "sector"). She gets underpaid even though she works 12 hours shifts sometimes in consecutive days (she usually gets paid 400 dollars per month if I estimated correctly). It's quite miserable.
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