How to Work Hard • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Work Hard

#891

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 7:18 AM UTC

jdross wrote: post #777

rgifford wrote: post #690

I worked my way through college as a mover (and came out the other side with high 5-figure debt). Many of the older guys I worked with had drug habits. I worked 16-hour days with those guys. They'd get on me for not running up stairs, for packing with too little paper around glass, for setting things down more than once. None wrote articles entitled "How to Work Hard." None knew Warren Buffet as a child (see Gates).…

I was a mover and then I ran a moving company. I love movers and the culture of people who work with their hands. They tend to be much funnier than office workers. I realize yours is a common reality, but it's not been my experience. I always felt surrounded by underdogs, and our privilege mostly came from former underdogs choosing to bet on me. My parents are middle class New Yorkers. I went to a public high school,…

[deleted]

Re: How to Work Hard

#892

Post by geocar » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 7:18 AM UTC

pauldickwin wrote: post #611

whoomp12342 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMAF, this is wildly a stupid idea. Tired devs write tired codes

Except that Bill Gates and people of that type don't get tired from it. They get energized.

When programmers get tired, some take a break, but others write more code than they need to because they can no longer think clearly.

You're right that Bill writes code like that, but I don't think this is something young programmers should envy or idealise.

Re: How to Work Hard

#893

Post by geocar » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 7:23 AM UTC

jmrm wrote: post #446

magicloop wrote: post #230

"I never took a day off in my twenties" (Bill Gates) quote is a misnomer because what Bill Gates considers a day-off is something where you are just lying around doing nothing, such as lying on the beach. A two week sojourn into a set of books that interested him were not considered "days off". He did such activities yearly. Bill Gates wasn't in the office working a 7 day schedule for his entire 20s. So that is not t…

Every time we read or hear that quote, we have to remember that Gates also lose and win a lot of money playing poker in university, so there was also time for non-work related tasks :-)

He was also the multi-millionaire son of a multi-millionaire at this point.

I think if that's you, then maybe his advice will help you, but if it's not you, it will probably just be confusing.

Re: How to Work Hard

#894

Post by superasn » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 7:28 AM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #569

nonbirithm wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same. I can hardly sit through an entire two-hour movie or play a video game without feeling like I should be doing something else. I cannot feel good about myself if I cannot sense that I'm making progress learning a skill, and am stuck for hours looking down at a blank page as a result. But what's dangerous for me is that this alarm system does not trigger consistently. I might spend too much time on HN,…

This is me. Though I didn't just learn this in my upbringing - I feel like my entire working life has been one of false promises and dehumanization, that has left me unable to enjoy anything. I'm 47 now, have worked at 6 failed startups in a row, and can't face work, or looking for a job. I used to blame social media and hacker news, but I now recognize that too much delayed gratification and overwork have had a much…

> have worked at 6 failed startups in a row, and can't face work, or looking for a job

I don't know much about your situation but this comment on HN from 2013 (1) might be helpful in your situation:

Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your brain to associate work with failure.

[snip]

On the heels of the failure of a project where I have spent weeks building up for, I will quickly force myself to do routine molecular biology, or general lab tasks, or a repeat of an experiment that I have gotten to work in the past. These all have an immediate reward. Now I don't burn out anymore, and find it easier to re-attempt very difficult things, with a clearer mindset.

(1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5630618

Re: How to Work Hard

#895

Post by nverno » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 7:35 AM UTC

rgifford wrote: post #889

Gatsky wrote: post #881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that everyone on this forum is prima facie remarkably privileged compared to someone in this world. 'We' all went to some kind of school as opposed to no school. 'We' all have amazing technology at our finger tips, as opposed to lacking basic nutrition and sanitation and personal safety. The difference between 'us' and the abject poor is much greater than the difference between 'us' and PG or Bill Gates. The abj…

It's an article called "How to Work Hard" that doesn't once mention luck, psychology, or basic human needs. What do you get from the success how-tos of multi-millionares? Do you really not see it as self-serving? Disclose survivorship bias, incredible privilege, and impossible odds and I'm in... I think? At that point I'm still unclear why the rich have something useful to say here that Maslow or other academics don'…

A lot us are able to take pleasure in other people's success and try to learn from them. It isn't very useful to assume the worst about people. The generalizations you are making here about rich people, etc. etc. are honestly ridiculous. Some of the most generous people I've met were filthy rich.

Re: How to Work Hard

#896

Post by rgifford » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 7:41 AM UTC

nverno wrote: post #895

rgifford wrote: post #889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an article called "How to Work Hard" that doesn't once mention luck, psychology, or basic human needs. What do you get from the success how-tos of multi-millionares? Do you really not see it as self-serving? Disclose survivorship bias, incredible privilege, and impossible odds and I'm in... I think? At that point I'm still unclear why the rich have something useful to say here that Maslow or other academics don'…

A lot us are able to take pleasure in other people's success and try to learn from them. It isn't very useful to assume the worst about people. The generalizations you are making here about rich people, etc. etc. are honestly ridiculous. Some of the most generous people I've met were filthy rich.

What are those assumptions?

Re: How to Work Hard

#897

Post by nverno » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 7:45 AM UTC

rgifford wrote: post #896

nverno wrote: post #895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot us are able to take pleasure in other people's success and try to learn from them. It isn't very useful to assume the worst about people. The generalizations you are making here about rich people, etc. etc. are honestly ridiculous. Some of the most generous people I've met were filthy rich.

What are those assumptions?

That rich people are different than other people.

Re: How to Work Hard

#898

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 7:45 AM UTC

rgifford wrote: post #690

I worked my way through college as a mover (and came out the other side with high 5-figure debt). Many of the older guys I worked with had drug habits. I worked 16-hour days with those guys. They'd get on me for not running up stairs, for packing with too little paper around glass, for setting things down more than once. None wrote articles entitled "How to Work Hard." None knew Warren Buffet as a child (see Gates).…

[deleted]

Re: How to Work Hard

#899

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 7:52 AM UTC

RC_ITR wrote: post #828

munificent wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the linked article: Another ex, Jill Bennett — described as his “first serious girlfriend” — said they split because of Gates’ fixation with working long hours. “In the end, it was difficult to sustain a relationship with someone who could boast a ‘seven-hour turnaround’ — meaning that from the time he left Microsoft to the time he returned in the morning was a mere seven hours,” she told Wallace. I don't see th…

Again. He claimed not a single day off, which is insanely unhealthy and almost certainly untrue if he had time for naked pool parties. I’m not claiming he was lazy, just asking “why take his provable lie at face value?”

[deleted]

Re: How to Work Hard

#900

Post by dang » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 7:53 AM UTC

luffapi wrote: post #718

eloff wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is clearly true looking from the outside, but people seem so eager to attribute motivations to greed or self interest, and success to luck, inherited wealth, and connections for any famous and successful person. Is it just jealously and pettiness? Do people downplay the achievements of others to make themselves feel better about achieving nothing remarkable? There is a rarely used English word I learned for the…

It’s not clearly true at all. Please tell me what was “great” about Viaweb (how pg got where he is today). It was literally about being at the right place at the right time. I think you’d also be hard pressed to find someone who would call Arc great. > Is it just jealously and pettiness? It’s neither, it’s people seeing who gets rewarded, how and why.

> think you’d also be hard pressed to find someone who would call Arc great.

I would call Arc great! It's one of my favorite things about my job that I get to work in it every day...though not nearly enough every day.

As for Viaweb, are you sure you're not looking at this through hindsight? Those guys were among the first to invent what we now call web apps, years before AJAX. In an era of internet startups coasting on hype, they built a real business - basically what is now called Shopify today. They also did it with a shockingly small team. All that seems pretty great to me.