Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is that ship still stuck?

istheshipstillstuck.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

891–900 of 1001 posts

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#891

Post by iSnow »

chaps wrote: post #838
rtkwe wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For moving containers off the best bet would probably be heavy lift choppers, the ship is large enough you could have several working on it at once and then just drop them off nearby to be loaded onto barges or something. A huge undertaking but it any weight taken off the Evergreen is less digging they have to do and the time is so expensive. Also it's less middle of nowhere there's a pretty large airbase nearby it l…

Like the OP said, folks really aren't understanding the scale of this problem.. If they manage to do a single crate per minute, that's still just under seven days to do them all. An empty forty foot shipping container on its own weighs about four tons and their max supported weight is 33.5 tons, so the problem is somewhere in between for every single container . A Mi-26 helicopter, a "heavy transport helicopter" can…

Uh, that's worse than I expected. The Egyptian Air Force has some Mil Mi-6, but their max slung load seems to be 8 tons according to Wikipedia.

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#892

Post by high_byte »

jl6 wrote: post #890

I’d like to question the premise of the financial impact of this... figures like “$400m/hour” are being bandied around as a measure of the lost trade. But this isn’t necessarily lost trade - merely deferred trade. So surely the financial impact should be proportional to the interest you’d pay on $400m/hour? At ~3% interest, we’re talking less than $1m/day. And so solutions that involve destroying the ship look less a…

very hard to measure. some goods like food expire. scary to think what about the livestock. other goods lose value due to delays, etc.

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#893

Post by dan_hawkins »

jl6 wrote: post #890

I’d like to question the premise of the financial impact of this... figures like “$400m/hour” are being bandied around as a measure of the lost trade. But this isn’t necessarily lost trade - merely deferred trade. So surely the financial impact should be proportional to the interest you’d pay on $400m/hour? At ~3% interest, we’re talking less than $1m/day. And so solutions that involve destroying the ship look less a…

Some goods are perishable. Modern logistics can have very tight deadlines.

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#894

Post by samuell »

oAlbe wrote: post #512
samuell wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are helicopters that I think can be used for (un)loading containers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-64_Skycrane

Seems to have a max take off weight of 19 tons by the look of it. The heli itself weights about 9 of those tons already, which leaves 10 tons of leeway. Those containers, from what I've read around here, can be well above 30 tons each. So that sounds like a no go. Also, they built only 31 of those helis in total according to wikipedia.

Aha, OK, I didn't realize the copter itself was included in the 19 tons.

I also saw someone mentioning 40 feet containers weighing up to max 9000 lb (ca 4 tons), but not sure it is a relevant or applicable number.

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#895

Post by jl6 »

dan_hawkins wrote: post #893
jl6 wrote: post #890

I’d like to question the premise of the financial impact of this... figures like “$400m/hour” are being bandied around as a measure of the lost trade. But this isn’t necessarily lost trade - merely deferred trade. So surely the financial impact should be proportional to the interest you’d pay on $400m/hour? At ~3% interest, we’re talking less than $1m/day. And so solutions that involve destroying the ship look less a…

Some goods are perishable. Modern logistics can have very tight deadlines.

Perishable goods go by plane though. Containers are often held up in ports for weeks due to customs checks. I’d expect the vast majority of sea-shipped goods to be non-time-critical and unharmed by waiting for a couple of weeks.

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#896

Post by tomerv »

maury91 wrote: post #867

You are all missing the simple solution: construct another canal next to it, so the other ships can continue to pass. ( I'm joking, do not take this as a serious solution )

I actually don't understand why this isn't the best option right now. The east bank is mostly empty, and the channel is pretty shallow. You could probably construct a 1km detour within a few weeks with relatively low cost. Seems like a good way to hedge the bet of getting it unstuck.

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#897

Post by PeterisP »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #545
blhack wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those excavators are there for show while they try to figure out what to do. There is absolutely no chance that 2 guys with excavators are going to dredge out enough of the canal to free the ship, and the canal authorities know this. It there was even shadow of a chance that that might work, then every single excavator in Northern Africa would be on it's way to the canal to dig it out and free the ship. In fact I'd s…

> In fact I'd say that if there was even a snowball's chance in hell that that would work Damn straight, considering the law of salvage[1]: > The law of salvage is a principle of maritime law whereby any person who helps recover another person's ship or cargo in peril at sea is entitled to a reward commensurate with the value of the property salved. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_salvage

Well, the law of salvage wouldn't apply since there's no "peril at sea" involved - the ship and its crew and its cargo are in no imminent danger. They are stuck, but there's no damage or destruction expected to them that would justify salvage. Losses by ship inactivity or blocking the channel are out of scope for salvage, since these are costs to someone else, and salvage law applies when you rescue the property of the ship owner/operator, it refers only to value of ship and cargo and (recently) environmental damage like oil spills (if it would be the liability of the ship operator).

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#898

Post by matkoniecz »

undebuggable wrote: post #855
hunter2_ wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the classic beached whale clearing technique [0] would work. [0] https://youtu.be/V6CLumsir34

> No respectable seagull would attempt to taggle[?] [the particles of dead whale] anyway.

tackle?

Re: Is that ship still stuck?

#899

Post by reader_x »

01100011 wrote: post #169
blhack wrote: post #39

I don't think people are giving enough credit to how stuck the ship is. Look at some of the photos of the front of it. Look at how far out of the water it is sitting. The ship might look like that if it were totally empty, but not when it is full of containers like this. Some people saying: just drag it off of the sand. Okay! And what happens when that causes you to rip a hole into the hull of the ship? Now it's real…

Could you build a temporary barrier around the ship and the section of the canal, bring in some massive pumps, and temporarily raise the water level around the ship? Edit: Something like this https://www.hydrologicalsolutions.com/aqua-barrier-cofferdam...

Could the containers themselves be used to help create such a temporary barrier?
Post reply on HN