Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

891–900 of 1001 posts

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#891

Post by kekebo »

72deluxe wrote: post #855
krageon wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is a toxic dictator who hates the idea of ceding power so that they can have a constructive and open protocol for everyone. That means the app should never be used, by anyone. If you're going to use software like this, you may as well stay with whatsapp - at least that has a lot of users.

I see mention of the toxic dictator stuff and non-reproducible builds mentioned through this thread - do you have info on that you can point me to? I am asking because a guy at work wanted me to install Signal as voice call quality on Duo was appallingly bad. Thanks in advance.

I can only guess but it may relate to Moxie's at times somewhat brash behavior in Github issues and an ongoing debate over centralized vs decentralized protocols (with him advocating the former). He gave a talk addressing the (de-)centralization topic at the Chaos Communications Congress in 2019:

36C3 - The ecosystem is moving | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj3YFprqAr8

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#893

Post by jordache »

sneak wrote: post #72
jordache wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not just create a burner FB account?

It's no longer a burner if you type in payment details to buy stuff, it's then linked to your banking identity.

However if you don't use that account for any other activities, it's a dead-end insight

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#894

Post by MayeulC »

madeofpalk wrote: post #657
submeta wrote: post #467

I am in the EU, and this is what I have been presented with: „ By tapping Agree, you accept the new terms, which take effect on February 8, 2021. After this date, you’ll need to accept the new terms to continue using WhatsApp. You can also visit the Help Center if you would prefer to delete your account and would like more information. To learn more about how WhatsApp processes your data, read our updated privacy pol…

> Will start using Signal app I can't do this because everyone else I know uses Whatsapp.

Well, do you know whether they use Signal as well? You might be surprised.

Whatsapp helpfully gives you a transition period during which you can try out both ;)

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#895

Post by jwr »

ruairispain wrote: post #697
kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

So many children using it. Wonder what the EU law is on data privacy and under age kids? Can under-18s legally sign this snooped data over to FB? Hope some lawyers can stop this in its tracks. Otherwise Signal or some other service will get our business

Yes, usage by kids is a real problem. My child is one of only two in the class that doesn't use WhatsApp. All the others do. They have what they call a "class group", even though not everyone is there.

When I try to tell parents how much Facebook learns about their kids (their friends, networks, and by merging data from different sources: habits, school, frequented locations, etc), they just roll their eyes. The response is "well everybody is tracking us, who cares".

All this even though there is Signal, which works JUST FINE.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#896

Post by nutanc »

Everyone here seems to be mentioning how they want to move but cannot move because of the network effects.

Even for me, my kids school sends updates on WhatsApp. Bank also sends its updates on WhatsApp etc. But I have avoided using WhatsApp for these purposes. And so far I have survived. Because almost all businesses don't rely exclusively on WhatsApp. Atleast in my case. They send emails, SMS messages etc. It's not as clean as WhatsApp. But everything has its pros and cons.

If we really want to move, then I think we can move. It will be a little harder to start with. But then something better will hopefully come across. Tech has always filled gaps which come up.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#897

Post by julianmarq »

It's very interesting how upon news like this, everyone rightly jumps at the throat of the evil corporation pushing for more control of everyone's information. But when the discussion is about free speech—which this stuff is directly related to, just in a subtle way—then suddenly at least half the comments are clamoring in defense of the large corporations' right (to censor) to host whatever they want in their platforms.

All because "the users don't know better, so it's good to filter the information they get access to" or because "information overload is somehow more likely to push people to the extremes than siloing and letting people live in filter bubbles" and other similarly paternalistic justifications. It's interesting how facebook trying to get the information is bad, but using that information, among other things, to filter what its users see or not is apparently good.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#898

Post by rusk »

corty wrote: post #838
rusk wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the EU you need to worry about it’s the courts ... check out the whole Max Schrems Facebook thing and the Apple Tax stuff is yet ongoing ...

Yes, but both are examples of the EU not actually wanting to do the right thing, even if the courts say so. Privacy shield was shot down by Schrems in court, only to be replaced by the EU mumbling about "standard contract clauses, just do the same as before". No billions in penalties in sight. Same for the Apple (and others') taxes in Ireland: While the Irish have been told by courts and the rest of Europe to collect…

No you're out of date, the standard contract clauses thing was blown out of the water. It's a big problem for Facebook, not sure where it's at now.

Also your understanding of the Apple case is a little out of whack too. There's a lot of subtlety to it, but basically the court ruled in Apple's favour on a technicality and there is a revised appeal pending.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#899

Post by nindalf »

xuki wrote: post #820
nindalf wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People didn't know I wasn't getting their messages. They saw 2 ticks, meaning delivered to your device? Or did they see one tick, meaning only delivered to the server? If it's the latter, that's a reasonable choice for the server to make. The server has acknowledged receipt of the message, and failed to send it to your device. If you wanted WhatsApp to advertise to your contacts that your account was inactive, you…

> The server has acknowledged receipt of the message, and failed to send it to your device. Doing this without explicitly telling the other party is a dark pattern.

What is with HN and throwing around words like dArK pAtTeRn?

No it’s not a dark pattern. They’re being as transparent as possible. If you long press the message and click “info” they even explain what each tick means and when each event took place. It’s literally not possible to be more transparent than that.

And before the privacy brigade who’ve not used the app show up, this is configurable. You can opt out of sending and receiving read receipts. And since it’s a closed app with no other implementation, you can’t circumvent that either.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#900

Post by MayeulC »

Aachen wrote: post #546
lrvick wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are going to move from one centralized, walled garden, privacy hostile platform that hard requires Google/Apple ecosystems to get signed updates... to another with identical drawbacks. I suggest something that lets you use any client/platform you want, uses the same crypto primitives, and lets you choose what server/country your data is hosted in and change your mind any time, e.g Matrix. How many times do cen…

Matrix is riddled with bugs. While I agree with you that signal isn't all that great (they do some really good stuff and then make some really weird trade-offs), I've recently compared Signal, Wire, Threema, Jami, Briar, Element/Matrix, and Keybase. The most mature app is Signal. It has the best usability to privacy trade-off. Threema is the better choice if you don't mind not having a usable desktop client. For me t…

I can recommend the FluffyChat Matrix client, it's quite pleasant to use, although still not perfect :)

https://fluffychat.im/

Post reply on HN