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Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

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Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#891

Post by tyfon »

user5994461 wrote: post #882
rhizome wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A BIG chunk of all that drama is due to the US social safety net not including childcare. That's the thing disturbing thing about these stories: employees are turned against each other when it's a) the company; and b) your tax dollars, not providing any kind of built-in childcare for society. In France, kids can go to preschool and have pre- and post- school childcare, which has to be paid, but it's only like $500/mo…

>>> it's only like $500/mo In France the large majority of workers make 1000 - 2000 euro a month after taxes. Half of it going to rent like in every city. That means people may have a couple hundreds euros left at the end of the month in disposable income after rent, food, gas, taxes, etc... That is to say 500/month for childcare is insanely expensive and unaffordable!

Here in Norway we have another system where the payments for child care is graded so those with low income pay zero and those with highish (> €60000/year) pay full (€200-300/month) and in between you pay around €100/month.

500 bucks/month seem quite expensive.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#892

Post by gumbo »

pm90 wrote: post #502
subsaharancoder wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This feels like more of an effort to create a story than accurate reporting of what life is like inside tech firms right now. This is very true. The genesis of the story is that at one of the FAANGs (I work for one of them) someone posted a question that kind of made it sound as "parents vs single employees" issue, the media (the NYTimes got the ball rolling) have jumped on this and are fanning the flames at a time…

How is the media fanning the flames if they’re reporting on something that actually happened? Perhaps to you it may not be a big deal, but FAANGs are now a crucial part of the lives of Americans and the Public is naturally interested in what goes on in these companies. To a certain extent, this kind of media attention is an offshoot of the success of the Industry.

Here is the problem of U.S. news. Journalism has turned I to a contest for attention. How is it relevant to report on one (or even few) employees posting something?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#893

Post by kelnos »

gones00n wrote: post #652
wmsiler wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they chose to have children, and I chose not to Up until the pandemic, my work schedule had almost never been affected by me being parent in any way. I chose to have kids knowing that my wife and I would be able to continue working without this significantly impacting our jobs (after the first several weeks after they were born, of course), and that has always been true until this. You are acting as though parents f…

There's risk in every major life decision, including having kids. I hope I'm not coming off as anti-children but while parents couldn't have anticipated the pandemic and its impact, they need to react to the circumstances. If their home situation requires it, then they should switch to part-time or even quit temporarily. I also agree with giving parents "extra slack", though again there are limits. At this rate the p…

> If their home situation requires it, then they should switch to part-time or even quit temporarily.

How exactly to people buy food and pay their bills in this scenario?

You're not coming off as anti-children, but you're definitely coming off as someone who lacks a basic understanding for how life in society works.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#894

Post by yazaddaruvala »

RHSeeger wrote: post #283
nicbou wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who loves to cook, I don't fully agree. 60% of cooking is logistics: knowing what to eat, setting time aside for grocery shopping and meal preparation, and keeping food waste to a minimum. In my opinion, this is a lot harder than the actual cooking. If you've never done it before, it's surprisingly hard. Cooking in a well-organised, well-stocked kitchen is very different from starting with an empty pantry,…

I have a hard time agreeing with this. Cooking things like hot dogs, dogs and beans, pasta and meat sauce, etc... that's relatively simple for anyone. And it can be done for the time being until they figure out how to cook better things; things that will make them happy. The ability to ease your way into cooking for one's self should make it relatively trivial. Honestly, compared to figuring out how to work from home…

By the time I was 14, my brother would have been 10, my mom just bought us the right ingredients and frozen foods and we managed to make ourselves 80% of our meals.

This is over 15 years ago, and there was no pandemic going on. It was worthwhile even then and helped me be better prepared for moving out of my parents house.

FWIW, my brother and sister who were both younger than me when we started preparing food are significantly better and healthier cooks than me today. So starting to cook earlier, as long as it is safe, has only helped.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#895

Post by kelnos »

nicbou wrote: post #312
jdm2212 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone has to provide the goods and services you'll consume when you're old. Those people are today's kids, whose parents are doing you a big favor at considerable expense to themselves. Raising children isn't like smoking, a hobby, a side hustle, or other miscellaneous personal obligations. It's more like military service and jury duty -- an essential service that some people perform to ensure that society as we kn…

Then is it cool if I skip a few meetings to volunteer to help the homeless? We already heavily subsidise child-rearing through taxes and other benefits. As I said elsewhere, there are mechanisms for supporting parents already. If you tried to let any other charitable endeavour take over your work schedule, you wouldn't expect your compensation to remain unaffected. I'm not resentful at parents. It just seems complete…

> Then is it cool if I skip a few meetings to volunteer to help the homeless?

You don't have to help the homeless during the work day; that's a choice. But parents don't get to decide not to care for their children during the work day, when school/daycare/etc. is not available.

> It just seems completely unfair to make childless employees subsidise this adventure

How is that happening, though? As a non-parent who chose to work from home most of the time pre-COVID (despite HQ being a 30-minute walk from home), my work life is nearly unchanged due to COVID. I get up, work 8-10 hours, and then go and do whatever I want (obviously "whatever I want" has been curtailed due to COVID, but that's not my employer's or parent-coworkers' fault). I'm not "subsidizing" anything when a parent gets more flexibility during their work day due to child care obligations. The thing that changes for the company as a whole is that projects take longer to complete because many employees have taken a productivity hit, but that's no skin off my back.

> Besides, let's not pretend that people choose to have kids as a service to humanity. I've never, ever heard anyone claim that. People have kids because they're fun, and because making them is fun.

Agreed, and as a non-parent I can't help but roll my eyes whenever a parent tries to tell me what a grand service to humanity their child-rearing is. But, at the end of the day, humanity would cease to exist without people having kids, so regardless of their actual motivation, they are providing a valuable service to humanity.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#896

Post by gandutraveler »

jdm2212 wrote: post #274
nicbou wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't fully agree with you. Back when I worked in retail or fast food, smokers could step out for a 5 minute smoke break every once in a while. As a non-smoker, I wasn't allowed to just sit there for 5 minutes. At the end of the day, we got paid the same, but smokers got 30 minutes off, courtesy of the non-smokers who picked up the slack. Likewise, parents are excused from work because they have children. I fully a…

Someone has to provide the goods and services you'll consume when you're old. Those people are today's kids, whose parents are doing you a big favor at considerable expense to themselves. Raising children isn't like smoking, a hobby, a side hustle, or other miscellaneous personal obligations. It's more like military service and jury duty -- an essential service that some people perform to ensure that society as we kn…

How many parents think about having kids because its an essential service ensure continuance of society? I would say none? It's a personal and selfish choice for their own family. I'm not saying that it doesn't benefit the society. But there are govt schemes like child tax credits etc. which are meant to control the population.

Yes parents should be given the time off. But do all parents need the time off? What if you have teenage kids? Also why limit this for parents only, why can't the same benefit apply to singles who can use the extra time off to find their potential partner and hence help in societies growth. I feel it's tone deaf to just talk about parents problems during these crisis.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#897

Post by encom »

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #689
rhizome wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A BIG chunk of all that drama is due to the US social safety net not including childcare. That's the thing disturbing thing about these stories: employees are turned against each other when it's a) the company; and b) your tax dollars, not providing any kind of built-in childcare for society. In France, kids can go to preschool and have pre- and post- school childcare, which has to be paid, but it's only like $500/mo…

The biggest chunk is due to the US's (and much of the rest of the world's) lock-down policies. I am not a parent, but I am disgusted that so many in society would wish to knowingly ruin childrens' lives all over the world just to continue living through this obscene assault upon humanity. Even if we were to buy the absurd notion that we will save substantial numbers of lives by forcing kids to go to school remotely,…

I would give this comment 'Hacker-news Gold' if I could.

Yesterday I heard on the radio the local chief of police saying they would be present and ready to write fines to people who didn't follow the new restrictions on public night life. Like they were actually eager to do so!

The same is true for people not wearing face-diapers on public transport.

I'm not saying ignore corona entirely, but on the other hand I'm shocked at how carelessly people act when their rights are violated and their governments oppress them.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#898

Post by hunta2097 »

mrexroad wrote: post #859
MakeUsersWant wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mix in special-needs children who need constant one-on-one support, young siblings, and dual career parents. Covid stress falls completely off the radar.

Yeah... this. Not all situations at home are equal. Wish folks at work would understand that. ... school aged kids outnumber my partner and I. IEP and 504 support has yet to prove effective remote. But it’s the effort to mitigate the developmental regression that keeps me up at night. Cognitive behavioral therapy, etc. isn’t cheap either. ... working from the 1950’s garage with ambient temps just shy of 100F last wee…

Hello fellow garage-worker!

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#899

Post by C4stor »

user5994461 wrote: post #882
rhizome wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A BIG chunk of all that drama is due to the US social safety net not including childcare. That's the thing disturbing thing about these stories: employees are turned against each other when it's a) the company; and b) your tax dollars, not providing any kind of built-in childcare for society. In France, kids can go to preschool and have pre- and post- school childcare, which has to be paid, but it's only like $500/mo…

>>> it's only like $500/mo In France the large majority of workers make 1000 - 2000 euro a month after taxes. Half of it going to rent like in every city. That means people may have a couple hundreds euros left at the end of the month in disposable income after rent, food, gas, taxes, etc... That is to say 500/month for childcare is insanely expensive and unaffordable!

Half of it is returned in the form of tax credit.

A full time job minimum salary is 1.521,22 euros per month in France, and at this salary, you have no revenue taxes and extra child support, namely a one shot birth allocation of roughly 1000 euros, and 185,54 € per month of child support.

So, no, "500/month" is not in my opinion "insanely expensive and unaffordable" considering a bigger picture.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#900

Post by luckylion »

kelnos wrote: post #893
gones00n wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's risk in every major life decision, including having kids. I hope I'm not coming off as anti-children but while parents couldn't have anticipated the pandemic and its impact, they need to react to the circumstances. If their home situation requires it, then they should switch to part-time or even quit temporarily. I also agree with giving parents "extra slack", though again there are limits. At this rate the p…

> If their home situation requires it, then they should switch to part-time or even quit temporarily. How exactly to people buy food and pay their bills in this scenario? You're not coming off as anti-children, but you're definitely coming off as someone who lacks a basic understanding for how life in society works.

> How exactly to people buy food and pay their bills in this scenario?

In Tech? With 3-10 times the average family income? How will they buy food if they work part time for a month or two, or one of them quits?

Probably the way as before, with their massive pay check.

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