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Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

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Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#891

Post by quickthrowman »

softawre wrote: post #811
quickthrowman wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you thinking the individual underlying shares of an equity index fund are valued? The performance of a company is analyzed, and market participants buy or sell shares and derivatives based on their analysis. You can make the argument that an over-reliance on indexing leads to less price discovery, but I don’t buy it. The people shrieking the loudest about passive indexing are active fund managers.

Managed versus index is to me, open source versus closed source. With managed funds, you have lots of participants out there eyeing the value of businesses. Everybody can make a buck by taking a peek. With Index funds, we all have to trust that S&P is doing the right thing.

> With Index funds, we all have to trust that S&P is doing the right thing.

No, you don’t. Here is the document that outlines how the S&P 500 is calculated: https://us.spindices.com/documents/methodologies/methodology...

> Managed versus index is to me, open source versus closed source.

This is also backwards, indices are transparent and open while managed funds are not.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#892

Post by loco5niner »

kennywinker wrote: post #659
WalterBright wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying stocks has never been more democratic. Anyone with $100 can buy stocks. No brokerage fees, and fractional shares are now common. We also just passed what in hindsight will likely be seen as a historic buying opportunity.

$100 in stocks is a meaningless "investment" e.g. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/few-americans-have-enough-sa... > Only 39% of Americans have enough savings to cover a $1,000 emergency So you're part of the 61% of americans with less than $1k on hand, but you put it into the stock market, congrats! At the end of the year you have $999 + 6% roi = $1059. Best case scenario you're looking at less than $10k for retireme…

> $100 in stocks is a meaningless "investment"

Actually, buying $100 in stocks on a regular basis is the foundation for good investing.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#893

Post by loco5niner »

amiga_500 wrote: post #551
WalterBright wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you buy stocks, you'll have the same proportionate gains/losses as everyone else who buys the same stocks. Sounds fair to me.

No, because workers are underpaid to get stocks to rise. Capitalists get to have their cake and eat it.

So, become a Capitalist. You can start with $100

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#894

Post by KozmoNau7 »

Natsu wrote: post #890
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart has a history of building stores in areas where local stores already exist, letting them bleed money while they outcompete everyone with their lower prices, dominating the local area and driving other stores out of business. They can afford to this due to their enormous size and domination of their suppliers, which means they can sell their wares at lower prices than anyone else. They can afford to bleed mone…

> Walmart has a history of building stores in areas where local stores already exist, letting them bleed money while they outcompete everyone with their lower prices, dominating the local area and driving other stores out of business. So it's not a monopoly at all, they just offer things at cheaper prices and drive more expensive businesses out of business, while many reasonably efficient competitors still exist.

Walmart leverages their dominance over the supply chain and their position as a huge chain with locations all over the country, to outcompete local competitors who do not have the same benefits to draw upon.

As a consequence of this, local businesses die, jobs are lost and people either have to move away or accept Walmart jobs with well-documented bad pay and bad working conditions.

All of this is a deliberate business strategy by Walmart, because the US political climate and "business-friendly" ideology from both major parties prioritizes giant corporations with enormous lobbying power, over small business owners.

As a further local effect, business life is driven from the city centers to outside the cities, causing fewer people from the suburbs to go into the city centers, leading to urban neglect and decay.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#895

Post by Natsu »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #894
Natsu wrote: post #890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Walmart has a history of building stores in areas where local stores already exist, letting them bleed money while they outcompete everyone with their lower prices, dominating the local area and driving other stores out of business. So it's not a monopoly at all, they just offer things at cheaper prices and drive more expensive businesses out of business, while many reasonably efficient competitors still exist.

Walmart leverages their dominance over the supply chain and their position as a huge chain with locations all over the country, to outcompete local competitors who do not have the same benefits to draw upon. As a consequence of this, local businesses die, jobs are lost and people either have to move away or accept Walmart jobs with well-documented bad pay and bad working conditions. All of this is a deliberate busine…

That's competition. Monopoly is when you don't have real competitors. And yet somehow they compete vs. Amazon, Target and a thousand other stores.

They don't have control over the supply of any particular good, it's not like an ISP where they have covenants with local governments that limit competition, they're not Standard Oil. They're not even at the level of Microsoft, because there's not much they can do to exclude competition.

But I guess some people have tried this tact, before. Here's an article which discusses many of the points you've made and explains why they don't make sense:

https://truthonthemarket.com/2006/07/10/the-unconvincing-ant...

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#896

Post by KozmoNau7 »

Natsu wrote: post #895
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart leverages their dominance over the supply chain and their position as a huge chain with locations all over the country, to outcompete local competitors who do not have the same benefits to draw upon. As a consequence of this, local businesses die, jobs are lost and people either have to move away or accept Walmart jobs with well-documented bad pay and bad working conditions. All of this is a deliberate busine…

That's competition. Monopoly is when you don't have real competitors . And yet somehow they compete vs. Amazon, Target and a thousand other stores. They don't have control over the supply of any particular good, it's not like an ISP where they have covenants with local governments that limit competition, they're not Standard Oil. They're not even at the level of Microsoft, because there's not much they can do to excl…

Walmart quickly becomes a local monopoly, because they dominate over the local competitors who cannot leverage the same economies of scale to lower distributor prices nor afford to bleed money in one area in order to take over the local market.

Honestly it seems you either refuse to read what I wrote, or you are invested in a free market ideology. The link you posted is nothing more than a hard-libertarian free market fanatic opinion blog, heavy on snark and lacking in value.

Read about the damage Walmart does to communities and why even their mere presence in the market completely distorts it:

https://money.com/walmart-stores-closing-small-towns/

https://www.citylab.com/life/2012/09/radiating-death-how-wal...

https://popularresistance.org/new-report-wal-mart-destroys-l...

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2013/03/28/1197622/-The-Walma...

This goes for all megamart chains, Amazon and the like, but Walmart is among the very worst.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#897

Post by Natsu »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #896
Natsu wrote: post #895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's competition. Monopoly is when you don't have real competitors . And yet somehow they compete vs. Amazon, Target and a thousand other stores. They don't have control over the supply of any particular good, it's not like an ISP where they have covenants with local governments that limit competition, they're not Standard Oil. They're not even at the level of Microsoft, because there's not much they can do to excl…

Walmart quickly becomes a local monopoly, because they dominate over the local competitors who cannot leverage the same economies of scale to lower distributor prices nor afford to bleed money in one area in order to take over the local market. Honestly it seems you either refuse to read what I wrote, or you are invested in a free market ideology. The link you posted is nothing more than a hard-libertarian free marke…

[flagged]

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#898

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