The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#891

Post by mlang23 » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:13 AM UTC

bscphil wrote: post #822

cwp wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a bout of this about 20 years ago, so I made a rule for myself: I wasn't allowed to decline an invitation. If somebody proposed doing something together and I was able, I had to do it. That made a huge difference in my life. I did a lot of things that were... unexpected. (A few examples: I joined an ultimate frisbee league. I went skydiving. I joined a church group. I went to a strip club. I attended a wedding.…

>I had a bout of this about 20 years ago, so I made a rule for myself: I wasn't allowed to decline an invitation. That approach works great as long as you are currently getting invited to things. If it's been a year since the last time you were invited to anything, that's not going to solve your loneliness problem.

Thanks, I was just about to comment something along those lines. It is relatively easy to get back into society if all you need to do is stop declining offers. It is a completely different game if offers happen very rarely. In my case, I've got yet another challenge: I have a disability. And people tend to treat you like sfrm another star. It is really quite a challenge to stay connected if society treats you like an outcast.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#892

Post by thirdsun » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:18 AM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #880

ratsimihah wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds great! Just be careful not too become too dependent on someone else.

Chances are good that people will become dependent on each other at some point in their lives anyway, especially with those you plan to grow old with. And that is completely fine. Doesn't mean that you need to identify yourself through your partner or friends. I do think this get interpreted wrongly too often, since a fundamental part of a relationship or friendship is having someone you can depend on in times of nee…

Of course you're right. Nevertheless I think it's healthy to pursue interests that don't necessarily involve your partner and, perhaps more importantly, not to neglect other friends - otherwise a potentially failing relationship might feel like losing everything, because it actually is.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#893

Post by abyssin » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:20 AM UTC

dgzl wrote: post #863

JimboOmega wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a woman, there are definitely times I don't want to deal with a driver hitting on me. It happens annoyingly frequently, and it's this delicate social situation that requires more mental effort to negotiate than I want to give it. Friendly conversation (with men and women both) is fine and I've engaged in plenty. But if a driver is too busy telling me just how beautiful I am and as a result drives me to the cargo p…

> and it's this delicate social situation that requires more mental effort to negotiate than I want to give it I understand what you're saying, and I recognize the blessing/curse that comes with attracting people. However, as I've become an adult with a career and have left essentially all my friends behind, I've realized that making new friends is incredibly difficult. Even worse is trying to find dating partners. L…

I don't think anyone should accept that someone who's paid to provide a service is entitled to expect their client to be available for dating.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#894

Post by apatters » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:22 AM UTC

decasia wrote: post #52

nugget wrote: post #15

Whatever it is today, I fear the future will be much worse. The most devastating existential consequences of loneliness can take decades to manifest. You feel a little lonely in your day to day life now, but wake up twenty years from now and realize you're socially isolated with no meaningful relationships or community and it's "too late" to make up the lost time. Most dangerous of all may be that online social netwo…

I agree with your first point — like other structural problems, loneliness adds up over time. But on the second point, I'm really not sure that online social networks are just a "surface-level mirage." I met my spouse online, and many of my closest friendships have developed online, by instant message, etc. I don't think the alternative to "online communication" is necessarily that we will all socialize in person. If…

I think the key is how social networks are used. You notably met your spouse online, which means at some point things presumably transitioned to an offline relationship which can't be terminated just by hitting a block button. Online networks can be great ways to meet new people, but there's ample evidence which suggests that having a purely digital social life is bad for mental health.

If we look at Tinder, there was a study of millennial users a while back which found that about 70% of them had never met anyone through it and didn't intend to. Moreover Tinder has economic incentives to keep you on their platform, swiping, texting, paying subscription fees, and viewing ads, all things you stop doing when you meet people and enter into a committed relationship.

Most social networks unfortunately follow this model; they have monetary incentives to keep you as engaged as possible in their all digital, all the time lifestyle, rather than unplugging and physically sharing space with other humans.

Healthier business models can certainly be imagined and maybe they'll even be implemented someday, but they aren't prevalent right now.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#895

Post by KptMarchewa » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:36 AM UTC

soulofmischief wrote: post #784

55555 wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> men died by suicide 3.54x more often than women That's a very interesting statistic considering women attempt suicide 1.2x more than men.

Huh. Didn't know that. The firearm thing makes a lot of sense. I left out the statistic that mentioned in 2017, firearms accounted for 50.57% of all suicide deaths. Didn't want to get misconstrued because I support the 2nd amendment and people like to use this fact as ammunition against it. But now I would like to see a breakdown of that statistic by gender, to see how many firearm-related suicides were men vs women.

Poland has virtually no guns, yet there is 6.7:1 male to female suicide ratio.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#896

Post by azraellzanella » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:37 AM UTC

rock_hard wrote: post #864

cwp wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a bout of this about 20 years ago, so I made a rule for myself: I wasn't allowed to decline an invitation. If somebody proposed doing something together and I was able, I had to do it. That made a huge difference in my life. I did a lot of things that were... unexpected. (A few examples: I joined an ultimate frisbee league. I went skydiving. I joined a church group. I went to a strip club. I attended a wedding.…

I started something similar about 12 years ago...inspired by the movie “Yes man” I started saying yes to every opportunity that I came across. Wanna have lunch together? Yes! Wanna go out with us tonight? Yes! Wanna help me move? Yes! It really got me out of my shell and made me realize that the reason I was alone is because I was an asshole. People had been trying to include me all my life, but I had always declined…

HA! Same w/ me, a "silly" movie actually changed my life for the better, thank you for letting me know at least another person got the same out of it.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#897

Post by apatters » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:39 AM UTC

rco8786 wrote: post #482

nugget wrote: post #15

Whatever it is today, I fear the future will be much worse. The most devastating existential consequences of loneliness can take decades to manifest. You feel a little lonely in your day to day life now, but wake up twenty years from now and realize you're socially isolated with no meaningful relationships or community and it's "too late" to make up the lost time. Most dangerous of all may be that online social netwo…

> Whatever it is today, I fear the future will be much worse. This is an easy trap for humans to fall into. "The sky is falling" type stuff. Humans have faced lots of problems over the millenia, but the reality is that our lives continue to improve as a whole..not get worse.

> Humans have faced lots of problems over the millenia, but the reality is that our lives continue to improve as a whole..not get worse.

I think this is no longer true. Life expectancy is actually on the decline in developed countries, driven by (among other factors) the loneliness epidemic described in this article.

You can argue over 5,000 years or something things have improved, sure, but in the present day there's a strong argument that quality of life is getting worse.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#898

Post by belorn » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:48 AM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #773

55555 wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> men died by suicide 3.54x more often than women That's a very interesting statistic considering women attempt suicide 1.2x more than men.

Men tend to use firearms more often when attempting suicide whereas women tend to use medication more often. The latter is easier to treat and ambulances are better equipped for overdoses than gunshots.

Firearms is one possible explanation. An other is that women get treatment more than men, particularly for depression. Treatment greatly reduce the risk of completed suicide.

There is a large uncomfortable area within suicide data. In a study, about half who attempt suicide said it was a cry for help. While we can't ask those that die, we do have data that say that those people usually have both a history of suicide attempts and a lack of treatment for it. This combination has a gendered aspect.

So it can be firearms, the culture around treatment, both, or other aspects which explains why men die by suicide 3.54x more often than women while at the same time women attempt suicide 1.2x more than men.

I think the best action to reduce suicide is with the medical profession. Treatment of drug and alcohol addiction, depression, and those who have attempted suicide in the past. We can try to reduce the number of firearms and adding barriers on bridges and subway platforms, but I have my doubts that areas which implement such action actually see a reduction in completed suicides. At best it gives the health care system a bit more time to provide treatment.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#899

Post by sasaf5 » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:59 AM UTC

"The SDT began emerging in the West after World War II. As societies became richer and goods cheaper and more plentiful, people no longer had to rely on traditional families to afford basic needs like food and shelter. They could look up the Maslovian ladder toward “post-material” goods: self-fulfillment, exotic and erotic experiences, expressive work, education."

I think there's one more cause for the Second Demographic Transition: The majority of jobs are now in the service sector. After spending the day negotiating and putting up with others, people may want some solitude.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#900

Post by wink » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 9:10 AM UTC

rock_hard wrote: post #864

cwp wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a bout of this about 20 years ago, so I made a rule for myself: I wasn't allowed to decline an invitation. If somebody proposed doing something together and I was able, I had to do it. That made a huge difference in my life. I did a lot of things that were... unexpected. (A few examples: I joined an ultimate frisbee league. I went skydiving. I joined a church group. I went to a strip club. I attended a wedding.…

I started something similar about 12 years ago...inspired by the movie “Yes man” I started saying yes to every opportunity that I came across. Wanna have lunch together? Yes! Wanna go out with us tonight? Yes! Wanna help me move? Yes! It really got me out of my shell and made me realize that the reason I was alone is because I was an asshole. People had been trying to include me all my life, but I had always declined…

For me it's more the opposite, in the last 2-3 years I said no for the first time in 15-20 years because I was more in the mood to do something on my own or just chill and do nothing.

I'm just saying this because in retrospect I think I've never been lonely because I was going out and meeting people at every opportunity that came up and I could never understand people who said "I'd rather stay at home today.". But because I've not got dozens of friends this was still a manageable level and I'd still often would've gone out more.