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Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

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891–900 of 1001 posts

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#891
Teresa May was a 'remain'.

Subjective, but...

It was never a question in my mind, that May would sabotage the negotiations to the point that the skeptics of the exit, would proclaim 'I told you so'.

Never believed that she could perform her duty honestly. What a stain she is, on the fabric of trust of the British people.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#892
post #41

The Brexit promise is something nobody can deliver on. It was a lie, you cannot force the EU to accept an unfavorable trade deal. If only for the reason that it would set an exceptionally bad precedent and everybody would want their own deal, to pick and choose the parts of EU membership that are favorable to them, leading the EU to implode. Somebody needs to own up to that lie and accept that a "no deal" outcome, wh…

I think there are multiple issues that have led to the UK being in the situation it is in:

1) The UK wanting to negotiate an amicable parting, but the EU actually wanting to punish the UK and negotiated in bad faith

2) Not starting No Deal preparations immediately. Standard negotiating tactic is to have a "BATNA" - best alternative to a negotiated agreement. Not beginning No Deal preparations prevented that.

3) Having a UK civil service that is largely in favour of remaining in the EU

4) Having a Prime Minister that was a remainer.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#893
post #799
post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic the US shouldn't have a single currency, either. I get that a single currency is problematic. Arguably it is problematic even in the US, after all this time. But it doesn't necessarily follow that a single currency is fundamentally infeasible. The US isn't crippled because of it. By contrast, the poster gave a very concrete explanation why adoption of the Euro by the UK was [then] infeasible.

> By that logic the US shouldn't have a single currency, either. The US is at least somewhat willing to tax money made in California and spend the takings in Michigan. Greece or Italy gets the worst of both worlds: they can't devalue their currency to make their industries competitive with Germany, but they don't receive much share of German taxes either.

They actually got quite a chunk until the rampant mismanagement was uncovered, but indeed not as much as states in the USA.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#894
UK is staring at supply chain and financial disruptions post Brexit. In the multi polar world - UK is not a heavy weight any more. Without the collective bargaining power of EU - UK would have tough time rebuilding economy in an uber competitive global economic context.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you view us?

As bullies, tbh. Reading the history of American foreign policy, it’s difficult to see it otherwise. It’s one long list of screwing other countries to serve the interests of the American people. That list contains a lot of bungled operations so the goals weren’t achieved some of the time. America has had 0 issues propping up brutal, venal, self-serving dictators if it meant benefit to America. Examples include Iran,…

It's worth pointing out that the US is not, never has been, and will not be as long as we have our Constitution, a democracy.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#896

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flooded by migrants, eh? Did they come in a wave? A tsunami? Did their little beady rat-like eyes and their smell offend you? Dress it up all you like, but you’ve just broadcast “I’m a xenophobe” loud and proud.

thats quite a stance. Like it or not, there is a huge influx of migrants into the EU. Acknowledging this does not make one a xenophobe and labelling someone with that opinion causes all sorts of divisions and further issues. In fact, your rhetoric is actually one of the main drivers spurring vote leave. People with valid opinions being labelled as racist only further entrenches their beliefs that they are not being l…

So, what’s your objection to migrants then? Is it the fallacy that they take jobs by having a strong work ethic, or is it the fallacy that they sponge off the state because they’re lazy? Or is it just because they’re different?

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#897

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should be a lesson for all voters across the world - think for a minute before voting. At least try to understand what you're voting on. We can blame all we want on the media, politicians etc etc, but in the end, we can't deny Brexit is the result of a properly, democratically conducted election - voters need to take at least some responsibility. No amount of "voters' remorse" is going to help now.

You can’t blame the voters for trump or for brexit. They voted their hearts as they should. It was the job of Hillary and the remain campaign to push their message and educate the people on what their choices could lead to. They failed. That’s not the fault of the voters. I doubt a single sole intentionally voted with malicious intent, and you can’t fault someone for voting what they honestly believe is best, even if…

You're giving US conservative republican voters and politicians too much credit. They didn't "vote their heart" they voted their hatred and wallet.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#898

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will leave 17m people in an absolute rage, and they have already murdered one MP. It'll get worse. So, the decision making is kept as hostage by 17m angry people who won't accept that their side winning was based on pretty much fraudulent arguments? Maybe, just maybe, it could be in the long run worth paying the price of their anger and show that the modern democratic society has some backbone against these kind…

Yeah, obviously the only way we can defeat the far right fanatics is by doing everything they want...

Surprisingly relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#899
post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Brexit promise was to leave the EU and open better trading options with the rest of the world. Outside of the EU, there is no issue reducing VAT, customs fees etc. In fact, WTO rules even allow more competitive options between countries if the UK chooses to lower associated fees in the WTO. Additional the UK is able to negotiate trade deals for it's own interests rather than concerns about protectionism for the E…

>The Brexit promise was to leave the EU and open better >trading options with the rest of the world. One would think that the EU would be in a better position to get better deals than a single country.

Think of 27 people negotiating, all with very different agendas, versus one person with a clear agenda.

Why do you believe that the EU would be in a better position? It's like a rat king when it comes to negotiating, 27 countries pulling in different directions all with different desires.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think what you are saying is correct. Rhetoric aside, I think there are 2 main reasons for leaving: 1. greater autonomy in deciding on laws (especially wrt things like immigration policy), 2. withdrawal of the financial contribution to Europe. Many "remain" people specifically oppose these 2 reasons. They want the European oversight on laws. One of the main reasons for a European Union is to ensure that these…

> 1. greater autonomy in deciding on laws (especially wrt things like immigration policy) Which turned out to have been possible all along, Theresa May simply didn't implement the EU rules which have already existed when she was home secretary. Immigration can never be solved by leaving the EU because it was already solved. > They want the European oversight on laws. If the last two years have shown us, the UK doesn'…

Funny, I never knew there were 500 countries in the world.
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