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Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

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Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#891
post #620

Jeff Bezos in the announcement. “We’re excited about this change and encourage our competitors and other large employers to join us" Is this an attempt to pressure its competition with less money in the bank to do the same, loby for a higher minimum wage and drive them out of business? Maybe it's a reaction to the union organizing taking place a whole foods and they think this will be cheaper in the long run. I don't…

Even if it is motivated by an attempt to gain competitive advantage, it's still a good thing. If the competition can't find labor at less than $15 an hour, then they'll either go out of business or start offering competitive pay. It's an example of capitalism working both for business and employees.

It's like the complement of flooding the market with cheap goods. You can similarly hog up some resource that your competitors also need, driving up its price. E.g. labor. Force competitors to sell cheap, and/or pay more for inputs.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#892

There's been similar moves in the past. Most famous of which is Ford's $5 / day. http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/blogs/post-per... Ford's quote from the time is relevant today: “The owner, the employees, and the buying public are all one and the same, and unless an industry can so manage itself as to keep wages high and prices low it destroys itself, for otherwise it limits the number of its customers.…

Ford's move was because he had difficulty attracting and retaining workers for boring assembly line work.

Correct.

> At the time, workers could count on about $2.25 per day, for which they worked nine-hour shifts. It was pretty good money in those days, but the toll was too much for many to bear. Ford's turnover rate was very high. In 1913, Ford hired more than 52,000 men to keep a workforce of only 14,000. New workers required a costly break-in period, making matters worse for the company. Also, some men simply walked away from the line to quit and look for a job elsewhere. Then the line stopped and production of cars halted. The increased cost and delayed production kept Ford from selling his cars at the low price he wanted. Drastic measures were necessary if he was to keep up this production.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/04/the-stor...

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 100% "Get out of Bernie Sanders' crosshairs before he regulates us to do this"

No democrat is getting any substantive bill through Congress and signed into law until 2020. I don't think they're afraid of Bernie.

2020 is not far away, especially in time scales of US Politics and mega corporations like Amazon... 2 years may as well be tomorrow.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and thus grew the middle class. The middle class is something we truly need to focus on growing again.

> and thus grew the middle class. The middle class is something we truly need to focus on growing again. But that's the problem with things like this. We keep focusing on the top and the bottom but not the middle. So we pass laws purporting to tax the rich (but really anyone with a full time job) and then the rich hire accountants and only the middle class pays. Then we clamor for a higher minimum wage, but the middl…

Where is that money coming from?

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and thus grew the middle class. The middle class is something we truly need to focus on growing again. But that's the problem with things like this. We keep focusing on the top and the bottom but not the middle. So we pass laws purporting to tax the rich (but really anyone with a full time job) and then the rich hire accountants and only the middle class pays. Then we clamor for a higher minimum wage, but the middl…

Where is that money coming from?

If they are worth that price, people will come up with the money. We aren't talking about charity here.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#896

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and thus grew the middle class. The middle class is something we truly need to focus on growing again.

> and thus grew the middle class. The middle class is something we truly need to focus on growing again. But that's the problem with things like this. We keep focusing on the top and the bottom but not the middle. So we pass laws purporting to tax the rich (but really anyone with a full time job) and then the rich hire accountants and only the middle class pays. Then we clamor for a higher minimum wage, but the middl…

It would help enormously if we had walkable communities with cheap rentals where a single person could reasonably support themselves on local minimum wage. The dearth of affordable housing -- by which I mean market rate cheap rentals, not government subsidized housing -- is a huge factor here in growing a permanent underclass and undermining the growth of the middle class.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#897

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 100% "Get out of Bernie Sanders' crosshairs before he regulates us to do this"

No democrat is getting any substantive bill through Congress and signed into law until 2020. I don't think they're afraid of Bernie.

> No democrat is getting any substantive bill through Congress and signed into law until 2020

Not sure whether you meant 2019 or 2021, but 2020 is a fairly nonsensical date given when Congressional and Presidential terms start, unless you assume that Trump would become malleable in a lame duck session after losing reelection or something of like that not tied to term starts.

Assuming a Democratic majority in at least one House of Congress resulting from the 2018 midterm election next month, 2019 would be more likely than 2020 or 2021, because necessary funding bills are a powerful lever for substantive non-appropriations legislation.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#898
post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not middle class. If you recently bought a $1M plus condo in SF, you are most certainly upper class. I don’t care if it was a 2 bedroom apartment.

It's not about dollars. It's about your behaviors. Behaviors of the middle class. Middle class people typically do things like own one home, work two jobs, save for their kids' college, keep their cars for a while, etc.

Middle class isn't working two jobs. If anything, it is a couple working one job and the partner doing their own thing: raising kids, personal project, community work.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#900

There's been similar moves in the past. Most famous of which is Ford's $5 / day. http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/blogs/post-per... Ford's quote from the time is relevant today: “The owner, the employees, and the buying public are all one and the same, and unless an industry can so manage itself as to keep wages high and prices low it destroys itself, for otherwise it limits the number of its customers.…

Ford's move was because he had difficulty attracting and retaining workers for boring assembly line work.

To add to the discussion, and your mention of boring assembly line work, a valuable quote (that occurs several hundreds of pages after the pin factory observation) from Smith's Wealth of Nations, written in 1776.

> The man whose whole life is spent in performing a few simple operations, of which the effects too are, perhaps, always the same, or very nearly the same, has no occasion to exert his understanding,or to exercise his invention in finding out expedients for removing difficulties which never occur. He naturally loses, therefore, the habit of such exertion, and generally becomes as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human creature to become.

> The torpor of his mind renders him, not only incapable of relishing or bearing a part in any rational conversation, but of conceiving any generous, noble, or tender sentiment, and consequently of forming any just judgement concerning many even of the ordinary duties of private life. Of the great extensive interests of his country he is altogether incapable of judging; and unless very particular pains have been taken to render him otherwise, he is equally incapable of defending his country in war.

> The uniformity of his stationary life naturally corrupts the courage of his mind, and makes him regard with abhorrence the irregular, uncertain, and adventurous life of a soldier. It corrupts even the activity of his body, and renders him incapable of exerting his strength with vigour and perseverance, in any other employment than that to which he has been bred. His dexterity at his own particular trade seems, in this manner, to be acquired at the expense of his intellectual, social, and martial virtues. But in every improved and civilized society this is the state into which the labouring poor, that is, the great body of the people, must necessarily fall, unless the government takes some pains to prevent it.

Vehicle production lines are now heavy users of automation, and workers skilled not only in assembly, but in process improvement, scrum, lean. Not simply being manual workers is to Amazon's benefit, as it was to Ford for he recognised the impact an individual worker had on the end-to-end production; embodied in concepts like TPS, lean, six sigma, but with long histories.

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