Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

josephg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

891–900 of 1001 posts

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#891

Post by karolist »

user5994461 wrote: post #562
brightball wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real trick is whether or not users care about: A) This works on all of the platforms that we use vs B) Performance could be better on my computer It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I worked on a laptop where I experienced noticeable performance problems...which is almost entirely because SSD's make them so much less noticeable if you start dipping into swap unless you're really working out your machine. For most us…

> It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I worked on a laptop where I experienced noticeable performance problems... Really??? Because personally, I keep having performance problems on all laptops I have. Don't try running on battery saving mode, seriously. I stop counting the 5+ years old laptops that have to be upgraded, they can't watch a youtube full HD video in good conditions. ---- Fun Anecdote: I had to trial an ent…

Just an anecdote, but my 2011 Lenovo x220 with i5 running macOS Sierra plays this site in Chrome with around 30% CPU use, everything is snappy still

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#892

Post by [deleted] »

user5994461 wrote: post #562
brightball wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real trick is whether or not users care about: A) This works on all of the platforms that we use vs B) Performance could be better on my computer It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I worked on a laptop where I experienced noticeable performance problems...which is almost entirely because SSD's make them so much less noticeable if you start dipping into swap unless you're really working out your machine. For most us…

> It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I worked on a laptop where I experienced noticeable performance problems... Really??? Because personally, I keep having performance problems on all laptops I have. Don't try running on battery saving mode, seriously. I stop counting the 5+ years old laptops that have to be upgraded, they can't watch a youtube full HD video in good conditions. ---- Fun Anecdote: I had to trial an ent…

[deleted]

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#893

Post by mercer »

atombender wrote: post #298
Touche wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They fail to integrate with the host platform Just as a counter-point, because native app fans often make this point as though it is universally recognized to be a good thing. I don't want apps to integrate with the host platform. The host platform is not the thing I care about. I use several host platforms in different contexts (I have work and home computers and a smartphone, they all run different OSes) and I wo…

I doubt you don't care. These are examples "integration with the host platform": * Text selection * Caret behaviour (e.g. Option-arrows on macOS) * Clipboard * Spell check * Open/save dialogs * File system access * Drag/drop * Window management * Accessibility (screen reader support etc.) * Standard right click menus * Indexing (e.g. Spotlight on macOS) * etc. You may be thinking to native UI idioms, which even Apple…

I often get frustrated when discussions about user interfaces in the context of native/non-native don't distinguish between 'skin' and 'ui'.

For the most part I think what people care about is that things work as they expect, which is primarily 1) placement of UI elements, and 2) interaction with/between these elements. If that's done right, nobody cares if the UI is flat, dark, light, or has a leopard print background.

Now I do understand that there's some overlap in ui/skin concerns, but the distinction still seems crucial to me.

For example, the web is clearly not consistent on the 'skin' of things. But I often know where to find things based on their location (header nav menu's, footer contact details, etc.), or general look (loupe for search, wide rectangle for inputs, some kind of wide rectangle with a doodad on the right hand side for a drop-down). Or a combination of placement and look (a search input field is an input field in the top right of a typical page).

Even lots of computer-challenged people I know seem to do pretty well in this regard.

But as you say, when it comes to interacting with elements, as long as the developer doesn't override 'native' behavior, a web-solution can be very native.

On the other hand, the vast majority of cross-platform native apps I use often look close to native, but their 'core', inputs, selects, text fields, and so one, often feel off.

Honestly, I much prefer a non-native looking app that uses native UI elements over an app that has an 'uncanny valley' native look that is slightly off and UI widgets that don't behave natively.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#894

Post by MarkMc »

smokeyj wrote: post #472
MarkMc wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with the content of your message, just wish you had used a word less derogatory than 'dorks'

I don't think it's derogatory enough. There's always these same rehashed arguments against electron - and it's always because of the same reason. The developer thinks he's a special snowflake and knows something that everyone else doesn't. He knows the "right way" and everyone else is dumb for not realizing it. FTA: It turns out modern operating systems already have nice, fast UI libraries. So use them you clod! FTA:…

You don't actually need to use derogatory words at all to win the argument. In fact, your more likely to change a person's mind if you avoid personal attacks like 'dork' and 'neckbeard bullshit'.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#895

Post by mercer »

Touche wrote: post #631
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're mistaken, the fact that so many company are switching to Electron is evidence that it doesn't sell better. Hold on a bit with that assertion. First: which apps built on Electron are being sold, period? All the ones I'm aware of are open source, like Atom, or front ends to services, like Slack. Second: which companies are switching to Electron for development? Again, all the Electron apps I'm familiar w…

Well, Slack is an example of an Electron app that is sold.

The app is free, and particular tiers of service are sold. Those are not the same thing.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#896

Post by mercer »

rndmize wrote: post #132
matthewmacleod wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nonsense . Desktop apps have been frequently released since forever. The underlying issue here is that Electron reduces the barrier to entry for cross-platform development . That is, it's cheaper to build a single cross-platform application in Electron than it is to build two or three native applications, and you can re-use your existing web experience. I can completely understand why companies might choose th…

> The underlying issue here is that Electron reduces the barrier to entry for cross-platform development. Actually, the incentive is even stronger than this. The ability to visit a website and start using an identical version of the app immediately is just as important - I doubt that Slack and Discord would have had half the success they did if users had to download the application before using it, regardless of them…

It's a difficult trade-off, even for me as a user. The fact that I can load Slack on all my devices and in the browser definitely played a role in my adoption of it. The fact that Slack is dog-slow and a memory-hog on my MacBook Air, on the other hand, has kept me from using it as a central part of my own work. Similarly, I am actively pushing everyone I communicate with the switch from WhatsApp to Telegram because the latter has a performant native app.

If I were to build an app where cross-platform support was crucial, I'd probably start with Electron as well because of time and budget concerns, and switch to native if the app 'takes off'. But on the other hand, I can imagine there being serious risks to building out an entire platform that way and having to rebuild it from scratch later on. Maybe there's never budget/time for it, leaving me locked in?

I suppose React Native could help in that regard.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#897

Post by brokenmachine »

ori_b wrote: post #733
brightball wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real trick is whether or not users care about: A) This works on all of the platforms that we use vs B) Performance could be better on my computer It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I worked on a laptop where I experienced noticeable performance problems...which is almost entirely because SSD's make them so much less noticeable if you start dipping into swap unless you're really working out your machine. For most us…

> It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I worked on a laptop where I experienced noticeable performance problems. This annoys me a lot, for one of two reasons. Either: 1. Some developers have no idea what performance means -- it's crazy that I have time to notice a spinner when a glorified IRC client starts up or switches tabs, let alone have time to watch it for tens of seconds. or: 2. If these developers are claiming th…

I agree with both of these.

With the power that even average machines have now, it beggars belief that we ever see a spinner at all for normal desktop-related stuff.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#898

Post by tigershark »

lmm wrote: post #825
cableshaft wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but Python still doesn't seem to have a great cross-platform desktop GUI, as far as I can find. I'd prefer to code entirely in Python if I could, but I haven't liked a single GUI library I've tried for Python. Although to be fair I haven't really tried PyQT out still, but I don't like the idea of having to buy a commercial license for it.

> Python still doesn't seem to have a great cross-platform desktop GUI, as far as I can find. PyQt is literally the best cross-platform desktop GUI going, in any language.

Last time that I tried QT was a huge pain compared to WPF or other solutions, admittedly something like 5-6 years ago. And it was proprietary and it needed a licence. With all my good will I find quite difficult to believe that now PyQT is the silver bullet to write all UIs. For sure it's not for me given that I find python a pretty average language with the huge handicap of duck typing (and before someone starts, yes, I'm aware of the 'type annotations')

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#899

Post by Dylan16807 »

MarkMc wrote: post #889
Dylan16807 wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having a hard time thinking of a word that's less derogatory. What do you have in mind?

In this context, how about 'programmer'?

That leads to a very strange sentence since 'programmer' is already used. More importantly 'programmer' doesn't work well as "thing you don't want to be". Instead you've left that category of word entirely. "Dork" is about as minimally-derogatory as you can get without losing the meaning entirely. And it doesn't feed any kind of discrimination.
Post reply on HN